Who Were the Lesbian Avengers – And Why They Still Matter

Ever heard of the Lesbian Avengers? No, they don’t fight aliens (though honestly, we’d watch that), but they do fight for queer rights!

In this episode, we’re throwing it back to the radical roots of queer activism and shining a spotlight on the Lesbian Avengers – a group that didn’t just talk about change, they ate fire to demand it (literally).

We’re talking bold and brilliantly queer protests, and how groups like the Lesbian Avengers and Dykes on Bikes paved the way for the visibility and rights we have today. But don’t worry, it’s not all history class – we’re discussing our takes on what’s happening right now too.

Here’s what we cover in this ep:

• The state of trans rights in the UK 
• How growing up queer in small towns hits different – and how community helps
• Celebrity allies like Robert De Niro
• The legacy of groups like the Lesbian Avengers and how their unapologetic activism changed the game
• The Stan Original Series The Invisible Boys

🎧 So grab your headphones, hit play, and join us as we celebrate the power of creative protest and the importance of visibility in this episode.

Until next time, stay perfectly queer!

 Archie & Katie 🌈

Links we found helpful:

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/24/1106444650/frustrated-by-societys-erasure-the-lesbian-avengers-fought-back

https://www.thecut.com/2021/06/lesbian-avengers-and-the-dyke-march.html

Images:

https://www.autostraddle.com/herstory-live-the-lesbian-avengers-school-you-on-their-ass-kicking-roots-147442/

https://womenslibrary.org.uk/collection-item/lesbian-avengers-cuddly-but-strong-flyer/

https://www.lesbianavengers.com/images.shtml

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/finding-and-preserving-lgbtq-southern-history-with-the-invisible-histories-project.htm

Transcript

Podcast: Let's Be Perfectly Queer

Episode Title: Who were the Lesbian Avengers and Why they still Matter

Host(s): Katie, Archie


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Archie (Host) | 00:00:04 to 00:00:14
Welcome to let's Be Perfectly Queer, a. Queer podcast creating space to talk about all things queer. My name is Archie. And I'm Katie. And we are your hosts.

Katie (Host) | 00:00:14 to 00:00:29
Questions of how you identify, seeking answers to clarify whether a queen or somewhere in between. Let's be perfectly queer. And you sound like shit. I do? I didn't realise how bad.

Katie (Host) | 00:00:29 to 00:00:43
I was talking about me having a grumbly voice earlier today and it just somehow. I mean, not somehow. Whenever you go in front of a microphone and you put headphones on now, I just. This is how I sound. It's beautiful.

Katie (Host) | 00:00:43 to 00:00:55
No, I've not taken up smoking or vaping. I just sound like this for funsies. Anyway, before we get into today's episode. What is today's episode? On this episode, we're gonna talk about the Lesbian Avengers.

Archie (Host) | 00:00:55 to 00:01:03
That's right, we're gonna be talking about the Lesbian Avengers. Gosh, I was so pro. Got that. Well done. Before we get into this episode, let's first say hello to some of our new listeners.

Katie (Host) | 00:01:03 to 00:01:11
Oh, I love doing this. So we have new listeners in Maspalomas. Las Palmas. It's a town in Spain. Cool.

Archie (Host) | 00:01:11 to 00:01:22
Islington in North London. West Busselton, Represent wa, which is really cool. And Poznan in Greater Poland. That is so cool. Oh, look at how divesting.

Archie (Host) | 00:01:22 to 00:01:57
Some quick news headlines before we get into the show. So at the time of recording this, it is May 2025, and even though we don't want to, we have to talk about what's happening in the UK right now with the trans rights and access to public toilets, because it's honestly pretty insane. Yeah, it is. So the UK Supreme Court recently ruled that when the Equality act talks about sex, it means biological sex, not gender identity. So what that means is that trans people can now legally be excluded from using single sex spaces like toilets and changing rooms that match gender.

Archie (Host) | 00:01:57 to 00:02:32
On top of that, the government is pushing forward with new rules that say all new public buildings like offices, shops and schools have to have separate male and female toilets. No more gender neutral options unless there's seriously no room. They say it's about protecting privacy, but for the trans and non binary community, this is being seen as a big step backwards. Victoria McLeod, who's the UK's first transgender judge, is taking it to the European Court of Human Rights. She's arguing that this whole approach strips away basic rights and that trans voices weren't even considered in the decision making.

Archie (Host) | 00:02:32 to 00:02:55
It's already having a ripple effect, too. In Scotland, a recently built primary school with only gender neutral toilets are now being told they have to add single sex bathrooms. This is a horrible time for our transgender folk in the uk and we are sorry to hear that this has been happening. They're taking away the basic need to just pee, pee in peace. Well, I think there's so many facets to this.

Katie (Host) | 00:02:55 to 00:03:15
It's the. If you have a unisex bathroom, it's the understanding and generally you have singular stalls. Like, there's not urinals in unisex bathrooms. It's very isolated and singular stalls that makes it so much easier. It's not the same as bathrooms, like the generic kind of male, female bathrooms that you put in.

Katie (Host) | 00:03:16 to 00:03:40
So it's actually a lot safer generally, like, and it's a lot more private and actually it's just generally nicer. And I think that they're forgetting the reason that they want to put these things in place is to protect women generally. This is. This is the lines that they're going down, isn't it? Whereas the people who harm women are not trans individuals.

Katie (Host) | 00:03:40 to 00:04:05
The people who harm women are men. So maybe they should actually be flipping it around and being like, why do men harm women in these spaces? How can we make it safer for anybody who is a woman or diverse who tends to be targeted by men in these spaces, rather than trying to be like, oh, no, I know who the culprits are. The culprits are the trans community. It's not the fucking trans community.

Katie (Host) | 00:04:05 to 00:04:17
The stats show it's not. Maybe just sort the fucking men out. On a more positive note, though, did you see the news about Robert De Niro? I did, I did. Are you going to tell us more about it?

Archie (Host) | 00:04:17 to 00:04:35
Yeah. So for those who haven't seen it, Robert De Niro has said he is showing love and support for his daughter Erin, after she came out as transgender. In a statement, he said, I loved and supported Aaron as my son, and now I love and support Aaron as my daughter. I don't know what the big deal is. He added, I love all my children.

Archie (Host) | 00:04:35 to 00:04:44
How great is that? I think that's rather progressive in a. Because Robert De Niro has something like 12 children or something. Ridiculous. I think he has a lot of children.

Archie (Host) | 00:04:44 to 00:04:49
Yeah. Yeah. And I think he's the age. Age of at least 70 now. Or is he 80?

Archie (Host) | 00:04:49 to 00:05:06
I have no idea. He's quite old and he had his last child last year or the year before, so I'm like, he's. The fact is, I don't know. I'm making broad assumptions about Robin De Niro and I don't know what his religious beliefs are, but I was a bit like, you know how? Like.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:06 to 00:05:18
Anyway, I'm gonna stop it, okay? Because I was just like, a lot of Catholics tend to have a lot of kids. And I was just like, oh, I wonder if he's Catholic. And then I was like, ooh. I mean, if he is Catholic and this is how he's thinking about trans people.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:19 to 00:05:34
Which is really impressive. Yeah. But it all depends. Like, I don't know if he is. It's all speculation, but either way, for somebody of that generation, granted, Robert De Niro, I mean, he's been quite unproblematic from what I'm trying to remember.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:34 to 00:05:44
Let me think. I don't think he's had any issues in the past that have been quite outed. I could be wrong. Either way, I appreciate it. We'll take it.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:44 to 00:05:58
Fucking win. So that's enough of the news and all that. Let's get into today's episode. So on today's episode, we are looking at the Lesbian Avengers. Have you ever heard of the Lesbian Avengers?

Katie (Host) | 00:05:58 to 00:06:10
I'm not sure, because there's a lot of lesbians in the Avengers or people who should be lesbianic in the Avengers. Just. I'm not talking about Marvel Universe. Are we not? No, no, no, no.

Katie (Host) | 00:06:10 to 00:06:37
What are we talking about? The Lesbian Avengers? Well, I feel like you're clickbaiting me, so I'm not really sure, so. The Lesbian Avengers were a radical direct action group formed in New York City in 1992 to fight for lesbian visibility, combat homophobia, and support LGBTQ rights. The group quickly expanded into a global movement known for bold, creative protests and an unapologetic stance on lesbian activism.

Katie (Host) | 00:06:37 to 00:06:56
That is so cool. It's really funny because lesbians don't actually get that much of a big highlighting when it comes to movements in the world. Usually it's like trans individuals, it's gays. It's like, yeah, lesbians kind of get put into the shadows. And lesbians have always been there supporting alongside.

Archie (Host) | 00:06:56 to 00:07:06
They were the ones. They're only ones, really, in the AIDS pandemic, who stood by. Yeah, gay men. You know what I mean? And they were there when there was riots.

Archie (Host) | 00:07:06 to 00:07:23
They led the march. And that's why you have dykes on bikes always leading the marches in pride parades. Do you know what is so true? I remember seeing that movie TV show where it follows all the young guys as they end up getting. Television show.

Katie (Host) | 00:07:23 to 00:07:26
Yeah. What happened to that? It ended. Everyone died. It was supposed to be another season.

Archie (Host) | 00:07:26 to 00:07:42
No, because remember it ended with the main guy having aids, but we didn't know if he was going to live or die, remember? Right. I'm so glad we haven't said the title of it. Not that we remember, but I feel like we just ruined that for anyone who was wanting to watch it. So I'm not going to say the title just in case.

Katie (Host) | 00:07:42 to 00:08:00
It's just some movie out there, guys. I can't remember where I was going, but, yeah, I remember watching that. Yeah, it was really beautiful. And it was moving to see the representation because, yeah, it's true, you're right. There was a lot of support there through the community, through the queer community banding together to be like, we need to support our counterparts because nobody else would.

Katie (Host) | 00:08:01 to 00:08:20
Everyone else thought that they were actually going to end up getting HIV or getting aids. And yeah, it was beautiful. And I saw recently on TikTok, this beautiful couple. So there was a lesbian and a gay man and they married and they became each other's support and stuff and he ended up getting HIV and aids and she was with him all the way to the end. Oh, that's cool.

Archie (Host) | 00:08:20 to 00:08:48
And then she would go and hug and hold gay men as they passed away in her arms and because nobody else would touch them. That is so beautiful. Also, did you know that on a quick tangent, sorry, guys. That we've got a HIV access clinic in Perth in public health that provides services because usually with HIV you would have to have daily antivirals. So now they actually have this amazing medication that's an injection that you can have.

Katie (Host) | 00:08:48 to 00:08:57
I'm not sure if it's monthly or bimonthly. I think it's bimonthly. So every second month you can have this injection instead of requiring all the tablets. Oh, that's amazing. It's so good.

Katie (Host) | 00:08:57 to 00:09:17
And it's a relatively new initiative. I think in the last one to two years, they've actually showcased and been like, look, this is something that we need to provide to the community because there's so many people out there who, for their jobs or for other specific reasons, they're not able to take medications every day. This really works for their lives. No, that's amazing. Brilliant.

Archie (Host) | 00:09:17 to 00:09:51
So the origins and goals behind the Lesbian Avengers. It was founded by Anna Maria Simo, Sarah Schulman, Maxine Wolf, Ann Christine Adeschi, Marie honan and Ann McGuire. The Lesbian Avengers emerged from frustrations with mainstream LGBTQ activism sidelining lesbian issues. Their goal was to fight against right wing attacks on lesbians and to increase lesbian visibility, not just in LGBTQ Spaces, but in public discourse. So let's talk about some famous actions and protests.

Archie (Host) | 00:09:51 to 00:10:19
The Avengers gained a reputation for their dramatic media savvy activism. Some of their most iconic actions include eating fire to fight homophobia. 1992, one of their first major actions targeted a right wing school board in Queens, New York, where parents were protesting LGBTQ curriculum in schools. The Avengers marched in front of the board eating fire, a powerful statement symbolising that the fire will not consume us. A response to the threats of lesbians being burned at the stake.

Katie (Host) | 00:10:19 to 00:10:51
Oh, wow. And then there was the Dyke marches. The Avengers organised the first New York City dyke March on June 26, 1993, drawing over 20,000 lesbians to march down Fifth Avenue without a police permit. This march sparked similar dyke marches worldwide, creating an alternative to mainstream pride, which often felt exclusionary to lesbians. They also had the curriculum and book censorship protests in 1993 when schools refused to include lesbian content in health and history curriculums.

Archie (Host) | 00:10:51 to 00:11:22
Avengers staged direct actions, reading lesbian books aloud in front of libraries and hand delivering queer material to schools. They also had invasion of right wing and government spaces in 1994. So activists stormed conferences of groups that promoted conversion therapy or opposed LGBTQ rights. Notably, they interrupted a speech by Senator Jesse Helms, a notoriously homophobic politician. Groups formed across Europe, Canada, Australia and Latin America, with Avengers chapters adapting their protest to local LGBTQ issues.

Archie (Host) | 00:11:22 to 00:11:41
They remained a decentralised movement, meaning each chapter had autonomy, but shared the direct ethos of the original Avengers. That's awesome. I love it. Their work laid the foundation for modern intersectional queer activism. The visibility movement they championed inspired a shift in the media and public perception of lesbian identity.

Archie (Host) | 00:11:41 to 00:12:07
Even though the original New York group dissolved, their legacy continues in activist groups, dyke marches and radical queer movements that still exist today. Hmm. I think that's the beauty of it is showing that there's community all over the world, that we're not alone. It's one of the most important things when you're struggling with mental health or if you're struggling with belonging, is knowing that there is community here throughout the world. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:12:07 to 00:12:28
And how to start making change. Because often it's like you want to do something, but you're not sure what's going to be the most impactful. And granted, that does change in different areas, but the themes and the messages are the same throughout. So creating like a template of, like, how to actually make the most impact, I think is just beautiful. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:12:28 to 00:12:54
So I wonder if we could try to get a hold of that lesbian Avengers blueprint and See what they've done and what we can see in the similarities of the different LGBTQ activist groups here. That's fair. It was really beautiful. So on the abc, they were doing a lot of coverage of Pride and Mardi Gras, which was great over in Sydney, and they had some interviews with some of the dykes on bikes. Like, it was really beautiful because it showed the support.

Katie (Host) | 00:12:54 to 00:13:25
In essence, it reminds me of the Lesbian Avengers, and I think it's the similarity of what we actually see with the dykes on bikes is in most Pride, dykes on bikes is what starts the parade. And the way that they were describing it was the support, the protection and the promotion of the lesbian community for the queer community. And I just thought that that was absolutely amazing. It's, in essence, I would imagine, the same values that the Avengers would be portraying. They know that they need to support and their own.

Katie (Host) | 00:13:25 to 00:13:53
And by their own, they mean lesbian people, but they also mean the queer community, because we are one whole unit, even though we do have diversity within it. That's exactly it. And they are protectors of the queer community, and they have always been quite outspoken about supporting all members of the LGBT community. So that's why it's really sad when I've seen a lot of comments on the different news outlets in Australia recently. Gay men condemning trans people.

Katie (Host) | 00:13:53 to 00:13:59
Yeah. And I don't know what it is. It's not that every gay man does. It's just. I've noticed there's been.

Archie (Host) | 00:13:59 to 00:14:16
Gay men have come forward onto these platforms and say, I am gay and I don't stand with the trans community. And I don't know why. It's. Unfortunately, what you've got in every community is that grayscale of human that still thinks that they're. It's that fear tactic.

Katie (Host) | 00:14:16 to 00:14:32
And it doesn't. Just because you're part of an inclusive community doesn't mean that you are not prone to having or succumbing to the fear tactics of others. Yeah. Yeah. Which is really sad because in essence, like, we're all just trying to support each other.

Katie (Host) | 00:14:32 to 00:14:51
We're all just humans, and it's a lot harder to. And you see it in government as well, when you have people who stand up for people within the queer community, whether they're queer or not, it's. People find it a lot harder to argue with somebody if you were part of that community right there. And they can see that you're a human. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:14:51 to 00:15:22
And you're just like everybody else, because in their mind, their preconceived idea about somebody who's trans is very different to actually talking to somebody who's trans and realising they're just another human. They are maybe your friend, they are your relative, they are your neighbours, they are your teachers, your healthcare workers, all of those people out there and you may not have realised that they were trans. Yeah. But your view of trans is somebody that has been imprinted inside of your brain from fear mongering. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:15:22 to 00:15:44
In the same way that that used to be what people thought of queer men as or people thought of lesbians as, or anybody who's had diversity. Whether we talk about somebody who's like genderly diverse or like culturally diverse, it's always been that if you separate yourself and segregate yourself, it's a lot easier to hate. It's horrible. Yeah. And it's, it's not the way to be.

Katie (Host) | 00:15:44 to 00:16:02
It isn't, is it? But let's talk about the birth of the lesbian adventures. In 1989, Yusuf Hawkins, a 16 year old black teenager, was murdered by a white mob in Brooklyn. His death exposed New York City's deep racial divides and in response, a group of teachers created a curriculum called Children of the Rainbow. The goal?

Archie (Host) | 00:16:03 to 00:16:25
Teaching first graders about diversity, different cultures and respect. Most of the 400 page curriculum was simple things like learning about Mexican hat dances and Greek holiday traditions. But there was a tiny six page section about different types of families, including those with gay and lesbian parents. And that. That caused an explosion of controversy.

Archie (Host) | 00:16:25 to 00:16:46
The backlash. Books like Heather Has Two Mummies and Daddies were meant to normalise queer families. But some parents, clergy and school board members weren't having it. One board member, Mary A. Cummins, called it dangerously misleading lesbian homosexual propaganda and compared it to lies from Hitler and Stalin.

Archie (Host) | 00:16:46 to 00:16:59
At the centre of this fight was Chancellor Joseph A. Fernandez, who defended the curriculum. But the backlash kept growing. Queer voices were being silenced again and it's happening again in history right now. Queer voices are being silenced again.

Archie (Host) | 00:16:59 to 00:17:21
And this was 1989. How beautiful is it that all those teachers got together to actually promote a curriculum of diversity? You don't see that these days. Well, I mean you've got a lot more barriers in place these days and there's a lot more standardisation that is required, unfortunately. Well, fortunately it's like a bit of a two edged sword in a way.

Katie (Host) | 00:17:21 to 00:17:34
You've got to have people in power having correct approach to stuff. But I think that's absolutely stunning that those teachers did that and they were supported by Fernandez. Amazing. And it just, it's important because it's the education. It's the education.

Katie (Host) | 00:17:34 to 00:17:50
That's. If you actually provide education to people, then they are more likely to have an open mind to what is actually out there. Bloody brilliant. They see people are trying. Been trying to do this for, like, over 35 years more.

Katie (Host) | 00:17:50 to 00:18:04
We keep on having these conversations again and again, don't we? And then it's. People are scared and they don't want a rise of people with knowledge, and they just attack on that point. It's a bit funny how. Who's it affecting?

Katie (Host) | 00:18:04 to 00:18:12
Like, your child knows that somebody has two mums. Yeah. Like, how is that bad? It's not. What do you think is going to happen?

Archie (Host) | 00:18:12 to 00:18:19
But it's just the knowledge. Some people don't like people having knowledge. Yeah. Freaking insane. So the birth of the Avengers.

Archie (Host) | 00:18:19 to 00:18:35
One woman paying close attention to this outrage was Anna Simo, a playwright and activist. She saw this attack for what it was. Yet another example of the hatred and suppression that queer people face daily. She knew something had to be done. Not just discussions, not just community building.

Archie (Host) | 00:18:35 to 00:18:56
So she brought together Maxine Wolf, Sarah Schulman, Ann Christine D'Adeschi, Marie Honan, and Ann McGuire. All activists deeply involved in women's rights, gay rights, and HIV and AIDS activism. But as lesbians, they often found their priorities pushed aside. Simo put it simply, no more talking. The point was to do something on the street.

Archie (Host) | 00:18:56 to 00:19:09
And just like that, the Lesbian Avengers were born. Love it. So where they came from, where the name came from, I was just gonna. Ask, did they call themselves the Avengers? Why would you think they might call themselves the Lesbian Avengers?

Katie (Host) | 00:19:09 to 00:19:21
Well, I mean, it's avenging people's rights, so it makes sense. I was just like, it would have been around the time that you would have had Batman and all that other kind of stuff, so it makes sense. Not an Avenger. He's dc. I know.

Katie (Host) | 00:19:21 to 00:19:28
I don't know. It kind of makes sense. I mean, avenging people's rights is like. Yeah, it makes sense. I don't know.

Katie (Host) | 00:19:28 to 00:19:39
Whenever I think of the. Yes, but no. Okay, sure. To be honest, if I was going to create a crowd of activists towards supporting rights and fighting for rights, I wouldn't have called them the Avengers. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:19:39 to 00:19:44
What would you have called them? I have no idea. But I like the name Avengers. Yeah, of course. You like the new invention.

Archie (Host) | 00:19:44 to 00:19:53
That's the reason why I'm doing a episode on them, because that's such a cool name. You got clickbaited there, did you? No. You were like, lesbian Avengers. No, it was a TikTok yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:19:53 to 00:20:07
I was like, have you heard of the Lesbian Avengers? And then they told me about it. I was like, that's so cool. The name Lesbian Avengers. Turns out it was inspired by Emma Peel, a sharp, badass spy played by Diana rigg in the 1960s TV show the Avengers.

Archie (Host) | 00:20:07 to 00:20:30
They wanted a name that felt powerful, active and maybe even a little rebellious. And that's exactly what they became. It's funny how I wouldn't include Avengers in rebelliousness right now. So their first public action happened in September 1992, outside of school in Queens, which we spoke about. And this school was a hotbed of resistance against the Children of the Rainbow curriculum.

Archie (Host) | 00:20:30 to 00:20:46
Instead of traditional picket signs and shouting matches, the Avengers staged a performance. Activists wore T shirts that said I was a lesbian child. They handed out lavender balloons to kids and parents, inviting them to ask about lesbian lives. It wasn't just a protest. It was a statement wrapped in spectacle.

Archie (Host) | 00:20:46 to 00:20:58
As Anna Simo put it, this was not a protest. This was more like a performance with a political end result. And it worked. People were engaging with the message instead of immediately rejecting it. Do you know what that's all about?

Katie (Host) | 00:20:58 to 00:21:09
Delivery. I feel like that's getting slapped in the face by Sapphic. That's what it is. The metaphor right there. The Avengers didn't invent radical activism, but they sure tapped into its legacy.

Archie (Host) | 00:21:09 to 00:21:43
Historian Lillian Fadiman connects their tactics to earlier feminist and queer protests. In 1968, feminists stormed the Miss America pageant, dumping bras, hairspray and girdles into the freedom trash can. In 1970, the Radical Lesbians crashed a national Organisation for Women meeting wearing T shirts that read Lavender Menace, reclaiming an insult thrown at them by feminist leader Betty Frieden. For the Lesbian Avengers, humour was just as powerful as rage. They mixed camp spectacle and activism, making it impossible to ignore them.

Archie (Host) | 00:21:43 to 00:22:06
Some of the more playful stunts included handing out chocolate kisses in Grand Central Station on Valentine's Day with the message, you've been kissed by a lesbian. Oh, that's so good. And installing a sculpture in Bryant park of Gertrude Stein and Alice B Toklas embracing a public tribute to a historic lesbian couple. The Lesbian Avengers had a motto, we recruit. And they weren't kidding.

Archie (Host) | 00:22:06 to 00:22:26
They flooded the streets with flyers, posters and bold designs, turning everyday city spaces into sites of queer activism. So LGBTQ people had long been accused of trying to recruit others. Instead of fighting the insult, the Lesbian Avengers flipped it on its head. They owned it, weaponized it and turned it into a movement. Smart.

Katie (Host) | 00:22:26 to 00:22:31
Let's do it. Let's actually do it. You say we are. Let's do this shit. They spread their message everywhere.

Archie (Host) | 00:22:31 to 00:22:49
Flyers and palm cards left in phone booths, newspaper boxes and ATMs. Newspaper boxes? We don't see those anymore. Bold posters pasted across New York mimicking commercial ads and striking images like Pam Grier, a blaxploitation icon holding a rifle. A smiling housewife with a bomb on a cake platter.

Archie (Host) | 00:22:49 to 00:23:05
They weren't just eye catching, they forced people to take notice to them. One of the masterminds behind this guerrilla style activist's art was Kerry Moyer. Her goal? Make queer activism impossible to ignore. She wanted to break the stereotype that lesbians were always dour and humourless.

Archie (Host) | 00:23:05 to 00:23:17
Her posters and graphics weren't just statements. They were fun, loud and subversive. They also sent a clear message. We exist, we're everywhere and you can't ignore us. I like that.

Archie (Host) | 00:23:17 to 00:23:37
So one of the biggest Avengers moments came in 1993. On the eve of the march on Washington for lesbian, gay and bi equal rights and liberation, the Lesbian Avengers organised their first dyke march. They expected a small crowd, but 20,000 lesbians showed up. That's awesome. 20,000 queer voices taking over the streets of Washington DC.

Archie (Host) | 00:23:37 to 00:23:58
No permits, no corporate sponsors, just radical lesbian visibility. Kerry Moyer explained that visibility was the whole point. We can show up in all these places. It doesn't have to be just the COVID of a gay magazine. The Lesbian Avengers proved that they could be anywhere and that queer activism belonged in the public eye, not just in LGBTQ spaces.

Katie (Host) | 00:23:58 to 00:24:09
Yep. Now let's look at the rise of Lesbian Avengers. Imagine going from a hidden underground movement to having your own TV network. From being considered outlaws to. To seeing lesbian culture in mainstream ads.

Archie (Host) | 00:24:09 to 00:24:29
That's exactly what happened in the 90s. Let's now look at how the Lesbian Avengers changed everything in just a few years. What started as a handful of activists turned into a nationwide movement. The Lesbian Avengers grew to over 50 chapters across the US. Dyke TV was launched, reaching 78 public access channels.

Archie (Host) | 00:24:29 to 00:24:44
They covered everything from news and politics to movie reviews. This wasn't just activism anymore. It was a cultural movement. By the late 90s, lesbians weren't just fighting for recognition, they were getting it. Vanity Fair and Time magazine covers.

Archie (Host) | 00:24:44 to 00:24:59
Lesbians were front and centre major ads. Companies like Subaru started targeting lesbian consumers. The LGBTQ community was moving from underground activism to mainstream acceptance. What do they say? Subaru in America?

Katie (Host) | 00:24:59 to 00:25:07
Subaru? No, I thought they said Subaru because. I know we say. We say Nissan and they say Nissan. Nissan But I think that's close to the Japanese saying.

Katie (Host) | 00:25:07 to 00:25:14
Yeah, but. Yeah. I wonder what. No, I'm pretty sure they say Subaru, but I'm not sure if it's. I follow a lot of Canadian lesbians.

Archie (Host) | 00:25:14 to 00:25:24
How cool is it? You know, they had a channel. And looking at what's happening in the world right now, I think the world needs a movement like this. Yeah. I think the Lesbian Avengers need to reignite.

Archie (Host) | 00:25:24 to 00:25:34
Lesbian Avengers assemble. Okay, settle down there, boy. Settle down there. Let me talk to my people and I'll get them to reignite again. I'm crying.

Katie (Host) | 00:25:34 to 00:25:40
You are? Jeez, Louise. That was so lame. But it was. But we do need the Lesbian Avengers.

Katie (Host) | 00:25:40 to 00:25:46
I know we do. We need our activists. We need. And I actually know. I do agree.

Katie (Host) | 00:25:46 to 00:26:13
I think it's the way that they portrayed their activism. I think that's the most important thing, is that when you're trying to get your point across, often the most important way to get your point across is not actually having a debate or yelling. There are other means. And I think that that's what made them so successful, is that when you're trying to charm somebody, you do it in many different facets to try and prove a point. You don't just attack in one approach.

Katie (Host) | 00:26:13 to 00:26:42
And I think that that was one thing that I'm definitely going to take from theirs, is that you have to be creative in how you're going to try and be when you're trying to prove your values or when you're trying to be an activist, is that you've got to think about what's going to be the most impactful. And often the most impactful is not going to be a big debate. It's about entertainment and humour. Yeah. And thinking about it, a lot of straight heterosexual couples turn to queer people for entertainment and humour.

Katie (Host) | 00:26:42 to 00:26:47
Like RuPaul's Drag Race. Like Rupert. Exactly. I wonder what it's going to mean for us. I wonder what.

Katie (Host) | 00:26:47 to 00:26:57
What's going to be the next step? Because you're right, it doesn't. We need. We do need to come back with our activism. We need to come forward and come together and actually work on this.

Katie (Host) | 00:26:57 to 00:27:15
Because I feel like there's a lot of people talking about this in different avenues, but we do need to have a solid approach to how this is happening. I don't know. I don't know. A solid approach maybe isn't the way of putting it, like, standardisation isn't great in all aspects because you need to have creativity. You need to.

Katie (Host) | 00:27:15 to 00:27:26
We need to get out there and start actually, like, getting. You can't say no to somebody who's got charisma, you know? You know how that is. It's just taking that thing where you take notice. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:27:26 to 00:27:46
And it's not in a negative way. You can't help but look and pay attention. Yeah, completely. So it's things like those flash mobs and those, you know, entertaining comedian acts and all that kind of stuff. And it's like, how does the next generation of activists make people stand up and pay attention?

Katie (Host) | 00:27:46 to 00:28:08
Yeah. So true. I think it's something we could do really well here in Australia. It's funny because American humour was previously based very much on making fun of each other, whereas I feel like in Australia we're more of an Alarican kind of comedy and we make fun of ourselves and we can make fun of ourselves as well as, like, seeing light and being quite witty. So I think that the best place.

Archie (Host) | 00:28:08 to 00:28:23
For us to start is the next chapter. The next generation of the Lozerian Avengers. Maybe so. Historian Lillian Fadiman remembers when things weren't so easy. She came out in the 1950s, when lesbians were seen as outlaws.

Archie (Host) | 00:28:23 to 00:28:43
If you were too visible, you could get fired from your job, be kicked out of school, lose your family and home. That's why the shift in the 1990s was so monumental. Lesbian identity was no longer just tolerated, it was celebrated. In 1997, the Lesbian Avengers officially disbanded. But their impact didn't just disappear.

Archie (Host) | 00:28:43 to 00:29:00
Their name and logo resurfaced controversially, and it was on a Pride T shirt collection from the Gap. Some called it progress, a sign LGBTQ culture is now mainstream. Others called it commodification, a corporate cash grab with no real activism behind it. What do you reckon? Do you know what?

Katie (Host) | 00:29:00 to 00:29:18
Just because we've done Pink Economy. Yep. I live in two minds because there is a lot of queer people in artistic spaces that could have been like, hey, let's do this, let's just get this out there. You wouldn't put it out there if you're. If the Gap was a homophobic organisation.

Katie (Host) | 00:29:18 to 00:29:39
I don't want to talk about the vast generalisation, but, like, whoever got that out there wouldn't have been homophobic. So no matter what, it still has a positive effect because it's still creating a conversation that needs to be had. Whether it is Pink Economy or not Pink Economy, it's still a positive effect. I would disagree. Oh, tell me.

Archie (Host) | 00:29:39 to 00:30:05
So usually these kind of things happen for their Pride editions, for during Pride season, and so they're literally Just capitalising off the pink economy, off queer people. But what are they actually doing besides printing a shirt? I mean, yeah, you're right in a way. You're right in a way, because it's different. So if you're looking like Levi Australia, when they had their queer campaign, all of their models were queer and a portion of every sale went to LGBTQ groups.

Katie (Host) | 00:30:05 to 00:30:23
Yeah. I mean, in the conversation, you can always do more, but. But that's what I'm saying. So I don't think if you're bringing this out once a year, where the Levi's wasn't just for Pride, they had it for, like, months like that, you know, I mean, if you bring it out once for, oh, it's coming up to Pride Month, let's capitalise on the queer money. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:30:23 to 00:30:42
Then I think, Yeah, I think it was a corporate cash grab because there was no activism to it. Where Levi's Australia is like, no, we are standing up for the rights of queer people, making sure that we are only promoting queer models in our. All of our campaigns. But I think it was like 20 or 25% went to these organisations. Yeah, no, it's true.

Katie (Host) | 00:30:42 to 00:30:55
It's true. There is better ways of doing it. I do definitely agree with that. It's funny, whenever you're like, every model was a queer model, I'm like, how did they know? Because most of their models were their workers and they asked their.

Katie (Host) | 00:30:55 to 00:31:03
Really? Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, I love that. So almost 40% of kids today identify as LGBTQ.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:03 to 00:31:09
Not that a lot of them are out, but they identify. I love that. That's nearly 50%. Yep. Look at us go.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:09 to 00:31:13
Yeah. Converting people. Sorry. I'm kidding. I'm kidding, guys.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:13 to 00:31:29
At the same time, hundreds of anti LGBTQ bills have been introduced. These stats come from America and from this article. I'm not sure if it is 40%, but that's what that article said. I didn't think it was that high. Many focus on limiting discussions of gender and sexuality in schools, AKA don't say gay laws.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:30 to 00:31:58
So has visibility made things better or has it just made the backlash stronger? Oh, it's such a multifaceted question. I think no matter what, the higher visibility, the more backlash you're going to get. But you need the higher visibility to start having the conversations to actually promote change. I often think that when you're getting further towards the end of the cause, the harder it's going to get with.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:58 to 00:32:07
Your cause, because you're going to be normalised into society. And so it does get Harder. Yeah. It's just like when women were fighting for the right to vote. Yeah, completely.

Archie (Host) | 00:32:07 to 00:32:33
It got a lot harder before they were able to get there. Yeah. Just like when you look at same sex marriage in Australia, it got a lot harder before it was legalised. And so before people accept LGBTQ + people as a normal part of society, and I say normal in quotation marks, it's going to get harder because people don't like to share space and people will always fight against things that they don't like. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:32:33 to 00:32:43
So we're watching Invisible Boys at the. Moment, which is the Stan original Australian series filmed in Jolton. Wow. Okay. Well, I was just going to explain that, but thank you.

Katie (Host) | 00:32:43 to 00:33:02
You did that really eloquently and I've seen all the ads on TikTok and it's really good. It is a bit triggering in spaces of how derogatory people were towards people who were queer. And we're talking about actually just. It was in the 90s, I think. Was it 90s or 2000s early?

Katie (Host) | 00:33:02 to 00:33:22
It would have been 2000s because that's when the same sex vote was. Was like 2010, 2007. I want to say 2000. I want to say 2009. So public opinion of same sex marriage in Australia has shifted from 38% support in 2004 to majority support of 75% in 2023.

Archie (Host) | 00:33:22 to 00:33:29
Yeah, it's amazing. I think I was year 10 in 2004. Yeah, I would have been. I was in year nine. I don't know why that took me so long.

Archie (Host) | 00:33:29 to 00:33:54
Why not take you so long? So that's incredible how much support, you know, the increased support. That's amazing. So in March 2013, the former Labour Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced his personal support of same sex marriage. Upon returning to prime ministership in June, Rudd promised to introduce same sex marriage legislation within a hundred days if Labour won the 2013 federal election.

Archie (Host) | 00:33:54 to 00:33:59
Well, granting it's only been 2017 since it's been legalised, yeah. Really? Yep. Bloody hell. That's not.

Katie (Host) | 00:33:59 to 00:34:30
Same sex became legal in Australia 9th December 2017. That's insane. I thought it was a lot longer. The conversation has been going for a very long period of time. It's really triggering to see the conversations that we have had in Invisible Boys with people who were close family and how negative and derogatory they are to queer communities or just like their individual family members being part of the queer community or just gay, like just putting it out there, being gay men and it's, it's crazy looking Back at that.

Katie (Host) | 00:34:30 to 00:34:53
But then also seeing you think how far we've come, but then how swings and roundabouts happen again. And we have these derogatory comments again, which, you know. And that was only what, that eight years ago. And the conversations and the language, and it is a little bit triggering for me personally, growing up in a small town, because Geraldton is not that far from where I grew up. Well, it's still far, but not that far.

Archie (Host) | 00:34:53 to 00:35:16
It's a lot closer than Perth. So if you are watching Invisible Boys right now, the language, the emotions and the kind of reactions to people being queer is exactly what I had to deal with growing up. Yeah. It's just the anger and the hatred that is followed with the language, which can be quite triggering. And one of the families are European, so they do come from that Italian background.

Archie (Host) | 00:35:16 to 00:35:31
I do come from a Portuguese background. It's not the same, but it is very similar. Yeah. And so the way that when you have these big Portuguese gatherings and the way that people talk about queer and LGBT people, it can get very triggering watching the show. So just be mindful.

Archie (Host) | 00:35:31 to 00:35:50
It's disgusting. Yeah. I think the other thing is, is that it's good to see what it's like in the small country towns, because in larger cities, you can get lost and you can step away from it. If you're getting bullied in a certain area, you can generally retreat to home. Or if you're getting bullied at home, there are places to go.

Katie (Host) | 00:35:50 to 00:36:10
Whereas in a small country town, you are so limited. And there are scenes in which one of the main characters tries to get out of Geraldton. And I can understand that feeling of needing to get away, but the only way that you can get away is literally distancing yourself from a town. So you're also isolated. You're physically isolated.

Archie (Host) | 00:36:10 to 00:36:24
Because a small country town, there's usually one or two roads in and out, and you either drive or you bus or you plane. And for some people, you can't afford that. Yeah. You know, or you don't have the connection. So what happens once you get to Perth?

Archie (Host) | 00:36:24 to 00:36:47
You're going to be sleeping on the streets. So there's all those kind of elements as well, that for the queer people growing up, especially rural people in your rural small towns across Australia, and if you are lgbt, it is very hard. That's why it's so important to have this activism in our major towns that influences the change that happens rurally. Yeah. It's such a hard space to be in.

Katie (Host) | 00:36:47 to 00:37:17
And I can understand how. I love the Values of the Lesbian Avengers. I love how sometimes you have to be creative with your approach to activism and sometimes that's the only way to win votes in a way because your motives, not your motives, but like the way you do things has to sometimes be more creative, more calculated because you know that this general way of doing things, you will never be able to win. Yeah. So final thoughts.

Archie (Host) | 00:37:17 to 00:37:32
The Lesbian Avengers weren't just about protests and slogans. They were about taking space and making sure lesbians were seen, heard and respected. So what about today? Is queer activism still as bold and public as it used to be? Or do we need another Lesbian Avengers moment?

Archie (Host) | 00:37:32 to 00:37:50
Let us know what you think. Yeah. And if you're, if you are or were part of the Lesbian Avengers, please. Can you contact us please? We would love to either get a DM from you on our Instagram or Facebook or if you could send us an email on lets be perfectly queerpodmail.com that would be amazing.

Katie (Host) | 00:37:50 to 00:38:14
We would love to hear from you and to hear the stories that you've told, the things that you have planned, how you feel about the world today. We would really love to hear from you. Yeah. And so that was our episode on the Lesbian Ventures. We looked at a bit of the history, what they did and yeah, do you think that we need another movement like the Lesbian Avengers across the world, in Australia, in the us, uk?

Archie (Host) | 00:38:14 to 00:38:38
Where do you think the next Lesbian Avengers should start and what would it look like to you? And don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. It just helps us get out there so people can actually find us. And as a podcast that's based in Australia, it is a little bit harder to get out there. And, and so we just want to spread this message of activism, of love, of support for the queer community for everyone who's needing it.

Katie (Host) | 00:38:38 to 00:38:56
So please, if you can take the time to give us a five star review. So until next time, I hope that we have been perfectly queer, let's be perfectly clear.