Signs we were Queer as Kids

Hey there, our wonderful Let's Be Perfectly Queer family! In this episode we’re diving into the subtle (and not-so-subtle) childhood moments that hinted at our queerness long before we had the words to describe it.

But first, big news! Western Australia just announced a $2.25 million funding boost for LGBTQIA+ services. We break down what this means, why it’s crucial, and how it helps bridge funding gaps for queer communities.

Next up, we get personal—talking about disclosure, representation, and the impact of visibility in everyday life. From missed opportunities to moments of growth, we reflect on how representation (or the lack of it) shapes our experiences and helps combat misinformation.

🎮 The Main Event: Childhood Signs of Queerness
✨ Always picking the male characters in PlayStation games? Check.
🔥 Crushing on Kim Possible, Esmeralda, or some very specific animated characters? Double check.
📺 Queer Coding in Media – How films, TV shows, and books influenced our self-discovery.
⚠️ Toxic Tropes vs. Healthy Representation – Why it matters how queerness is portrayed in media.

Every queer journey is unique—so if our experiences don’t match yours, that’s okay! Queerness exists in a vast, beautiful spectrum, and there’s no right or wrong way to be you.

💌 We want to hear from you! DM us or email letsbeperfectlyqueerpod@gmail.com and tell us:

• What childhood moment made you go, “Ohhh… I was definitely queer”?
• Which queer-coded character shaped your self-discovery?

Transcript

Podcast: Let's Be Perfectly Queer Podcast

Episode Title: Signs We Were Queer As Kids

Host(s): Archie, Katie

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Archie (Host) | 00:00:04 to 00:00:15
Welcome to let's Be Perfectly Queer, a. Queer podcast creating space to talk about all things queer. My name is Archie. And I'm Katie. And we are your hosts.

Katie (Host) | 00:00:16 to 00:00:31
Questions of how you identify, seeking answers to clarify whether a queen or somewhere in between. Let's be Perfectly queer. And what have we got for today's episodes? And we're back. You're not going to say your usual and we're back?

Katie (Host) | 00:00:31 to 00:00:48
No, I hate it. Do you know what? I'm going to be fully transparent. And we're back is something that I say because I need to fill that hole and it makes you feel very uncomfortable every time. So every time if you're here and we're back, it's me being fucking awkward.

Katie (Host) | 00:00:48 to 00:01:12
And we're back. There we go. So, before we get into today's episode, just a quick bit of news relevant to people here in Perth. So, big news for the LGBTQIA community in Western Australia. Incoming WA Premier Roger Cook has announced a major 2.25 million funding boost to strengthen LGBTQIA services and community support.

Archie (Host) | 00:01:12 to 00:01:35
This comes off his last promise. I think it was either the last year or the year before of 900,000. So that's definitely a much needed boost there. Rainbow Futures WA CEO Misty Farquhar. Sorry, I don't know how to say that they go by, they them says this is a crucial step in addressing long standing gaps in funding, ensuring vital services can continue.

Archie (Host) | 00:01:35 to 00:02:05
So this builds on last year was last year, the last year's 900,000 investment in WA's first LGBTQIA inclusion strategy, which helped establish the RFWA, which is the Rainbow Futures WA, as the state LGBTQIA plus peak body. Along with the funding, Labour has committed to long overdue law reforms, including updates to anti discrimination protections, surrogacy laws and gender recognition. That's a lot. It is a lot. It is a lot.

Katie (Host) | 00:02:05 to 00:02:09
It's funny. 2 point. You said 2.1 million. 2.25. Sorry.

Katie (Host) | 00:02:09 to 00:02:15
2.25. Apologies. It doesn't seem like a lot of money. Even though it's more than before. Totally love it.

Katie (Host) | 00:02:15 to 00:02:30
But in the grand scheme of things, I Wonder how much 2.25 can actually get you. Well, it's a start because there was no funding at all, really. At agree. Totally agree. And because this is the body, it's not like it's the organisations that are freedom or minus 18 or it's just the body that just the body oversees strategies and.

Archie (Host) | 00:02:30 to 00:02:45
And that kind of stuff. So I think it's a. It's definitely a step forward. There's still more that needs to be done, but it's definitely a step in the right direction. I guess the whole thing is having a board that oversees strategies means that you have a seat at the table, which means that we have somebody.

Katie (Host) | 00:02:45 to 00:03:06
We have a group of queer or queer allies, supporting factors, who take people who are LGBTQIA individuals into account in everything that they're consulted about. Yeah. And it's great. And it's, you know, when we're seeing what's happening in the rest of the world, it is a nice little reminder that people here care. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:03:06 to 00:03:13
Yeah. It is important, isn't it? You gotta have a seat at the table. That's the most important thing. So people don't forget about you.

Katie (Host) | 00:03:13 to 00:03:36
Because if you don't, people will forget about you. Yeah. And as long as you're fighting for rights and showing that there still needs to be a voice for the LGBTQI plus community, this is definitely a step forward until the day that people realise that if you are lgbt, you get no discrimination, you're treated exactly the same. That's when Pride protests and stuff can stop until it's going to happen. But this is a step in the right direction.

Katie (Host) | 00:03:36 to 00:04:18
I had an experience the other day when I was at work and I was talking to one of the executives of where I work, and we were having conversations and in a sense, we were, like, setting up things and I was like, all these things need to happen. And it was all about inclusivity and making sure that our individuals, our consumers who are diverse and are in minorities, have access as well as that. There's the visualisation that they're safe here and that we will promote them and their support. And it's funny because we had a discussion because we always talk about our ATSI patients, so our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander individuals. And there is a lot of support behind that, which will always be important.

Katie (Host) | 00:04:18 to 00:04:42
And it was funny because I was like, oh, yeah, we're looking at this demographic, seeing what we can do here. We're also looking at LGBTQIA individuals and where we can go there. And I had a comment from one of our directors and it was, oh, yeah, but why are we doing that for lgbt? Why are we doing that for LGBTQIA and not doing it for other people of diversity? And I'm like.

Katie (Host) | 00:04:42 to 00:05:01
And to be honest, I was like, oh, this isn't the right space to be talking about it, because it was in a big meeting. But I was just like, well, it's part of the National Health and Quality Safety Standards that's the point of why we're doing this? And you got to think about. In my brain, I was just like, well, it's not one or another, it's. This is another thing we need to be looking at.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:01 to 00:05:12
We need to have visualisation over this as well. Yeah. It's like sometimes people think that you're all sharing the pie and by giving someone else the same rights, you're going to get less of the pie. And that's not how it works. It's not how it works.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:12 to 00:05:43
But it was funny because I was just like, you know what? You really. If I was addressing this with anybody else, I would have given that analogy and I would have actually explained it, but I was like, what's going to be the most impactful? Well, there's a whole huge governing body that happens to be the safety and Quality standards of Australia who say that it's important, that's why we're doing it. And I'm like, sometimes it reminded me you have to talk the talk of the person that you're delivering the information to and make them realise that it's not just a personal agenda.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:43 to 00:06:07
Yeah, granted, for me it's a personal agenda. I'm all about diversity and inclusivity and all that kind of stuff for everybody, but it's making the most impact for the people that you need to talk about. Recently, I told you because I'm doing relief at the moment, so I'm not as out to every group that I do teach. If I've been seeing the group for several lessons, like three or four, then I will let them know. By the way, the.

Archie (Host) | 00:06:07 to 00:06:30
This is what I go by, these are my pronouns, et cetera. But I had an interesting conversation with. I think they were a Year 9 student, a Year 9 or 10 student, and I overheard them saying stuff like, I'm worried for when my kids get to school because they're going to make learning about trans compulsory and you're going to learn about it all day and all the lessons and that kind of stuff. And I had to sit them down and be like, that is misinformation. Where have you heard that?

Archie (Host) | 00:06:30 to 00:06:41
That is not the truth at all. It is just going to be one small portion of a health lesson. That is it. There is no need to learn about transgender individuals across the board. But obviously it's the misinformation.

Archie (Host) | 00:06:41 to 00:06:58
And I actually just sat with the kid. I think it was like five or 10 minutes. We had a discussion just about why you don't listen to misinformation because you've got all worked up about something that is incorrect. Because if you actually do your research and look into it, that is not it at all. I didn't end up telling them that I was trans because I only.

Archie (Host) | 00:06:59 to 00:07:23
This is the first time I'd met the kid. But had this happened further down the track, it would have been an opportunity to go. By the way, I am trans because some of the schools that I am teaching at the moment are low socioeconomic, and they do come with a lot of bigotry and homophobia and racism and that kind of stuff. And at that time, unfortunately, it wasn't the right time or place, but I was able to talk to this kid and this kid be like, yeah, okay. Yeah, you're right.

Katie (Host) | 00:07:23 to 00:07:48
Yeah. It's funny because that's such a really good example. It's funny because I wonder if you had actually said that you were trans, if that would have changed their thoughts about the conversation that you'd had. It's such a funny thing because sometimes it potentially can. And then they dismiss the rest of the conversation and the learning point that it is depending on what their upbringing is.

Katie (Host) | 00:07:48 to 00:07:57
And if they already come from an area that's like, ugh, fuck trans people. Fuck queer people. So sometimes they're more willing to listen. To somebody who appears to come across as cis. Yes.

Archie (Host) | 00:07:57 to 00:08:17
Yes. Yeah, I think that's what I was thinking. So it's like, sometimes it's easier to just have that conversation and again, not explain the personal agenda you've got behind it. Sometimes that actually makes a bigger impact because you can be like, yeah, this is how you should think. I'm educating you as a teacher, not as somebody who's queer.

Archie (Host) | 00:08:17 to 00:08:25
Yeah. Because that comes into this element. I really get annoyed when people are like, oh, you're just being woke. Yeah. And I'm like, it's not actually woke.

Katie (Host) | 00:08:25 to 00:08:34
We're just trying to make sure that people don't get discriminated against. That's all it is. That's not woke. That's human rights. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:08:34 to 00:08:50
People like to use the term woke as a. Like, it's. It's a weapon and they want to weaponize it when, you know, it's just people having the understanding and empathy for inclusion and rights. That's all it is. Anyway, that's just a bit of news for wa and a bit of some chat, but.

Archie (Host) | 00:08:50 to 00:09:03
So what's this episode about today? It's about signs that we were queer as kids. Yeah. So we're just gonna have a chat about the different signs that should have Told us that we were definitely queer. Or if we had signs or if we didn't have signs.

Archie (Host) | 00:09:03 to 00:09:19
Yeah. So let's get into this episode. Today's episode, we're looking back at all the hilariously obvious signs. We were queer as kids, so we're gonna share some childhood experiences. I'm gonna ask you some questions and then I'm gonna read some listener comments as well.

Katie (Host) | 00:09:19 to 00:09:31
Can I ask you some questions too? Yeah, of course. The topic is things we did as kids that basically screamed queer. In hindsight, looking back, what is the biggest giveaway? That you weren't straight?

Katie (Host) | 00:09:31 to 00:10:02
It's funny because I don't feel like there was a really, really big one just because I was a pretty shy kid. So I feel like all my signs were pretty subtle, I guess, when I remember being in Year one. Granted, prefacing this, if you haven't heard any of our other episodes, I'm pansexual. It means I'm. I've had conversations at work recently with my beautiful boomer colleagues about what being pansexual means and it's just been very interesting.

Katie (Host) | 00:10:02 to 00:10:24
So, anyway, pansexual can be attracted to everybody. As a generalised statement, there's a lot more nuance. But anyway, that is what it is. Anyway, so I remember being proposed to when I was in Year one by a boy and he gave me this little ring that had like a rose on the top of it. Like it was a piece of wire with a rose on the top of it, but in a ring box.

Katie (Host) | 00:10:24 to 00:10:33
And he's like, will you marry me? And I was like, I mean, I will, but can we not be exclusive? Because I've got other people in my life. I'm in Year one. I've got like.

Katie (Host) | 00:10:33 to 00:10:53
I was like, bro, there's all these other people out there that I might need. Yeah, I think that I was, Yeah, I think me being like, you know what? Marriage, cool. But there are other things out there. I think that I probably very subtly had some signs, but, I mean, I don't remember them until.

Katie (Host) | 00:10:53 to 00:11:04
Oh, no. I used to just find girls attractive. I thought it was normal to just find people attractive, though. Yeah, I thought that was a normal thing to be like, oh, yeah, no, they're attractive. Or.

Katie (Host) | 00:11:04 to 00:11:12
Yeah. I think even in Year five, I was just like. I had a friend and I was just like, you know what? Your demeanour. Find that hot internally?

Katie (Host) | 00:11:12 to 00:11:25
God, I would never say that I remember thinking it, but I thought it was just natural. Like, I thought that was just how everyone felt. So it's Funny, I don't have, like these blaring signs. Now that I'm hearing it, I'm like, oh, I guess they were blaring signs. That was.

Katie (Host) | 00:11:25 to 00:11:30
Yeah, that was me. What about yourself? I had so many. Yeah. So I was a theatre kid.

Katie (Host) | 00:11:30 to 00:11:47
Oh, yeah. Who only ever played male roles in high school Fair. Yeah. And to preface this, I went to a Catholic school and I think from you, I think kindy primary up until Year one, I think it was like shorts and a T shirt kind of thing. But then you had to start wearing dresses and I never wanted to wear the dresses.

Archie (Host) | 00:11:47 to 00:11:58
And so then I'd always be like, oh, I thought it was sports day. So I'd wear the sports T shirt. And like, I think they're like those weird things that were like skort skirt things where they were actually shorts underneath. But then at the weird. Anyway.

Katie (Host) | 00:11:58 to 00:12:04
Yeah. You know, they're coming back. Right. Everyone's wearing skorts anyway. But I'd always, you know, those are the kind of things I'd always.

Archie (Host) | 00:12:04 to 00:12:22
Oh, like, oh, I thought it was sports day. I always wanted to do the things that the boys got to do. Like when the cohort got split up because it was a co ed, you know, I was like, no, I don't want to do that. And they kind of just let me to do a lot of the stuff. And then my book week outfit when I was in Year three, I went as Moonface so I could wear a suit.

Katie (Host) | 00:12:22 to 00:12:27
You did, didn't you? Yeah. I'll put a post. I'll put a picture up. Oh, my gosh, it's so cute on our Instagram.

Archie (Host) | 00:12:27 to 00:12:39
There's so many. There's so many signs. I think I had my first crush on a girl when I was in Year three. Yeah. Things like, I always did everything with dad, you know, if dad did something, I did something.

Katie (Host) | 00:12:39 to 00:12:53
Yeah. And, you know, going back to when I was six and not realising that me and dad were different and I got told off because I had to put a shirt on by Mum. Question. Yes. Did you feel like that crush you had in Year three?

Katie (Host) | 00:12:53 to 00:13:04
Did you feel like that was wrong? I didn't realise it was a crush until much later. So what did it feel like? You know, where you just wanted to impress someone and you wanted to hang around them all the time, that kind of stuff. And then it wasn't until I was older, I was like, yeah, that was a crush.

Archie (Host) | 00:13:04 to 00:13:09
I was like. Because I didn't. Growing up Catholic. Catholics are very. What is love?

Archie (Host) | 00:13:09 to 00:13:23
Communication ain't great, you know, Feelings, all that kind of stuff. So I didn't have the words or the language or understanding to know what was going on. To realise that was a crush. Yeah. I didn't realise about attraction or anything like that because it's things that we didn't talk about.

Katie (Host) | 00:13:24 to 00:13:29
When did you realise that? Good question. I don't know. Do you know that now? Not really together.

Katie (Host) | 00:13:29 to 00:13:38
Right. It was kind of all of a blur, you know, so I can't really. Oh, so interesting. So I feel like I'm hijacking this. It's great.

Archie (Host) | 00:13:38 to 00:13:52
Was there a moment when you thought, oh, I might be different, even if you didn't have the words yet? Oh, I feel like that's a loaded question. I've always felt different, but I don't know why. Yeah, it's a weird thing. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:13:52 to 00:14:04
I'm not really sure. I've always felt different. Not in the context of being queer, but I've always felt different. And I think I felt different from a very young age. We had a very weird family dynamic.

Katie (Host) | 00:14:04 to 00:14:19
It just is what it is. And I think I've always been more aware of things as a kid. They're not. But funnily enough, finding out now is being aware of things. Being aware of things is actually a very queer thing to be.

Archie (Host) | 00:14:19 to 00:14:34
Yeah. So I don't know. I've always felt different and I think I realise that I was more different than I was going to say most. But that makes me feel like a pick me girl. But I'm like, not more different than what.

Katie (Host) | 00:14:34 to 00:14:50
What society told me growing up. Like, I remember, like, reading Cosmopolitan and Girlfriend and all that kind of stuff and being like, do you know what? Like, funnily enough, I don't want to learn how to suck a dick. Like, that's. Do they put that in Girlfriend and Cosmopolitan?

Katie (Host) | 00:14:50 to 00:14:54
Oh, my God. You know the Seal section? Oh, yeah. I don't know. Elise got them.

Archie (Host) | 00:14:54 to 00:15:02
Not me. I used to fucking love the Sealed section. I got K Zone. K Zone, of course you did. This really is streamlining us into position.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:02 to 00:15:07
Anybody remember K Zone? Yeah. For our Australian. Was it in America too? Would have been American too.

Katie (Host) | 00:15:07 to 00:15:12
Possibly. Yeah. Anyway, the sealed section. Yeah, I think it was Dolly, Dr. There was.

Katie (Host) | 00:15:13 to 00:15:25
I used to love that. And it'd be like, does my labia look normal or like, I have a boyfriend? And like, you couldn't produce this magazine anymore. Like, oh, I'm not sure if it went into the details of Labia. I'm pretty sure I can't remember.

Katie (Host) | 00:15:25 to 00:15:37
Anyway, there was a. Like, I remember reading that and being like, oh, I am not interested in pleasing a man. Yeah, yeah. So. So for our listeners listening at home, some signs could be being obsessed with queer coded characters.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:37 to 00:15:53
Gender envy, before we knew what that was. And that's kind of what I was dealing with. I didn't have the language at the time, but it was a lot of gender envy. Always playing the boy roles, always not understanding why the boys got to do certain things and I didn't. That kind of stuff also could be weirdly intense friendships that were totally.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:53 to 00:15:57
Not just friendships. Don't even. Don't even at me. I feel like I've just been seen. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:57 to 00:16:16
And then for me as well, something was like, I really resonated with the song Reflection from Mulan and it wasn't until I was much older I realised why. And if you look at it, Mulan was a queer coded character. In the essence, she was playing a man. But, you know, it was in a. Way that, in essence, Mulan would have been non binary.

Katie (Host) | 00:16:16 to 00:16:24
Like, if you look at Mulan now, Milan would have been non binary. Potentially. Potentially. Yeah. There's definitely the queer coded aspect that that character could be non binary.

Archie (Host) | 00:16:24 to 00:16:41
Yes. Yeah. It's funny because it's like that whole thing of when you're growing up, when we were specifically growing up, because that was in the 90s, it was like, oh, she's such a tomboy. Yeah. I feel like that whole thing of like, oh, she's such a tomboy is a very clear coded.

Archie (Host) | 00:16:41 to 00:16:58
Yes. Because most people that I know from growing up, most people I know who've been like, oh, I wasn't a girly girl, or I was a tomboy, are now queer. Yeah. So out of the four people that I did know that we all got told that we were tomboys, three out of the four ended up being queer. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:16:58 to 00:17:03
That's what gets you. That's how queers are born. Yeah. It's the badge of honour. That's the starting.

Archie (Host) | 00:17:03 to 00:17:11
It's the first step. Yeah. The first step into queerdom. Be careful, guys. What were some of your go to childhood games or activities that in hindsight were so queer?

Katie (Host) | 00:17:11 to 00:17:20
Again, I was a subtle queer. Yeah. I think that. See this, this is the thing is that I don't think. Okay, now I'm unpacking things.

Archie (Host) | 00:17:21 to 00:17:37
Do you want me to go first and then you can. So for me, playing PlayStation, playing Super Nintendo, etc. It was always picking the male characters I did not like to play as the female characters. And I get really frustrated if someone else chose one of the male characters. And then I had to be the female character in a game.

Archie (Host) | 00:17:37 to 00:17:47
I didn't like that at all. And then also having very like the. When you play pretend and stuff like with your family, like your make believe and stuff. I always played the male characters. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:17:47 to 00:18:04
Or I was always designated the male characters as well, you know, theatre, kid energy, rejected gender norms and gender activities is something that I did as well. And then as a kid, you remember the game Kiss Tracy? Yeah. I would catch the boys but I would not kiss them. I'd literally catch the boys, hand them over to one of the girls to kiss.

Katie (Host) | 00:18:04 to 00:18:10
Oh really? Did you ever go kiss the girls? The boys would never play the Kiss Chasey back. Ah, yeah. Oh really?

Katie (Host) | 00:18:10 to 00:18:19
We had a lot. So in my primary school we had Kiss Chasey but it worked both ways. I think it was because the boys were like, oh, this is gross. So it was more like. It was more fun for the girls to go and kiss the boys.

Katie (Host) | 00:18:20 to 00:18:24
Oh, okay, sure. Yeah. Interesting. Very interesting. How about yourself?

Archie (Host) | 00:18:24 to 00:18:49
Is there anything there like from games or. It's funny because now I'm thinking about it, it's funny. I've always kind of like treaded the line between and this is not me coming out as non binary guys, just so you know. But I feel like I've always either treaded the line of being like a mother figure or like more of a parent figure whenever we were playing like roleplay games. Which I think says more about like my role in life.

Katie (Host) | 00:18:49 to 00:19:04
But hey. But no, it's funny that I don't really. When you started talking about PlayStation, I'm just like, I always play Silver Mario. But that's actually only because Silver Mario is a really good character. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:19:04 to 00:19:40
So I don't know, I don't think I ever did. I think my whole childhood, like not through playing games and stuff, I feel like I've struggled with either not feeling feminine enough or having a bit of a masculine side. Again not non binary that I feel at the moment. But it's funny that because I feel like the way that when you're a kid you kind of allowed to play in that space of like questioning, doing what you want to do, being whatever character you want to be and then you start growing up a little bit and then people are just like, why are you doing that? Yeah, yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:19:40 to 00:19:54
And then you actually have to like put yourself in a box and be like, no, we're more like this. Funny that, isn't it? And what's the first Queer Coded character or storyline you remember? Really Feeling something about what? Like, romantically.

Archie (Host) | 00:19:54 to 00:20:15
Not just anything. Like, there's people that are different than what people in my general circle might be talking about or that kind of stuff, or that story that's kind of different. And I haven't really thought about that in that way before. I don't think I've ever actually had a character that I resonate with. I think that there have been a lot of characters growing up that I felt attractive to.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:16 to 00:20:28
That is, like, weird. But I feel like coming out now, people are like, oh, yeah, Kim Possible was really hot. But then also, like, the female villain really hot as well. What else? No, just being attracted to weird shit.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:28 to 00:20:41
I remember watching she's the man and finding Amanda Bynes really hot. Less as a boy, but more of as a girl. And I'm being like, oh, yeah, she's fucking hot. Or like, Bend it. Like Beckham, Keira Knightley in that.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:41 to 00:20:54
But, like, all those kind of things that I was a bit like. I never really. Okay, so if I was a character in Bend It Light Beckham, I would definitely be the Indian best friend. 100%. I know that that's me.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:54 to 00:21:04
It's a sad tale that I feel like I am like that, but I feel like that's what I was. I do feel that movie Queer Baited a lot as well. Oh, fuck. Yeah. 100%.

Katie (Host) | 00:21:04 to 00:21:13
Seeing as no one is actually queer in that movie. If you look at it, be like, fuck, no. 100% queer baiting. Yeah. Or my imagination.

Archie (Host) | 00:21:13 to 00:21:23
No, it was definitely queerbaiting. Yeah. Everyone loves that. For me, it was the movie Mulan. It was like, wait, she's being a boy and nobody's batting an eye kind of thing.

Archie (Host) | 00:21:23 to 00:21:38
It was like, oh, that's interesting. And it made me realise that, like, oh, people do that. Or they can do that. Some other things were Queer as Folk. The show was the first time I'd seen or I remember seeing gay couples.

Archie (Host) | 00:21:38 to 00:21:45
I was really. I was in. I think I was in like, 11 or 12, I can't remember exactly, but it was on Foxtel and Mum was watching it. Oh, really? Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:21:45 to 00:21:51
And I was very surprised. And I was like, what is this? And I was very confused. Yeah. And I was like, wait, boys can love boys.

Katie (Host) | 00:21:51 to 00:21:59
Yeah. And it was never spoken about. And then I was like, this is weird. I don't understand it. Nobody talks about it.

Archie (Host) | 00:21:59 to 00:22:07
That kind of thing. And then a very toxic. Is it Ace Ventura, Pet Detective. Yeah. Where the person is trans?

Archie (Host) | 00:22:07 to 00:22:18
And that was the first toxic thing. And I was like, wait, people can change Their gender. So those were kind of my first time seeing queerness in media. Whether it be good or not. I was like, oh, wait, there are people that are different.

Katie (Host) | 00:22:18 to 00:22:31
Yeah. And there are people that might feel more like me because I feel different, and I don't feel like what is represented in mainstream media. Do you know what just popped through my mind is Mrs. Doubtfire. Mrs.

Katie (Host) | 00:22:31 to 00:22:55
Doubtfire. As much as I love Robin Williams in that movie, and it's a really good movie, it's actually really fucking problematic. And that's in some way. I don't 100% want to link it to this, but when people look at that and they say, oh, right, that's a man acting as if they're a woman. And actually, it's really toxic what they do.

Katie (Host) | 00:22:55 to 00:23:14
Manipulating Robin Williams, manipulating to be part of a family, acting to be something that he's not. Like, the world, I mean, apart from. In the last five years, has not had good representation of what trans looks like. No. And it's really difficult because people like, oh, x, Ventura, oh, Mrs.

Katie (Host) | 00:23:14 to 00:23:35
Doubtfire, all these things that either portray it as more of a toxic trope in a toxic trope or as the victim, because you have. Was it Hilary Swank? Boys Don't Cry? Yes. It's such an intense fucking storyline that's so heavy that I think that this is what's great about representation these days.

Katie (Host) | 00:23:35 to 00:23:57
Being trans doesn't have to. It's not the biggest thing in the world because it doesn't have to be. It's big to the person who's trans and, like, their story is big, but, like, in terms of knowing somebody is trans, it's not a big deal. So for me, the first time that I saw healthy representation of someone who was trans was Laverne Cox in Orange Is the New Black. Yes.

Archie (Host) | 00:23:57 to 00:24:07
That's the first time I was like, wow, this is incredible. Yeah, this is great seeing this. It's not toxic. It's not made as the sidekick. It's not made as the villain.

Archie (Host) | 00:24:07 to 00:24:20
And it was great. I thought, you know, obviously, that whole show is very problematic in ways, but that was a. The first time I saw a healthy representation of trans. Because if you remember the L word and Max. Max was toxic.

Archie (Host) | 00:24:20 to 00:24:26
And I'm so glad that they reworked that in the re. What is it? The. The reboot. The reboot.

Archie (Host) | 00:24:26 to 00:24:38
And the creators said, you know what? They. They screwed up. They messed up with that character and they wanted to rectify it, and then they wanted to ensure that they were doing the character justice because Max was complicated. And toxic.

Katie (Host) | 00:24:38 to 00:25:02
Yeah, true. And then it kind of added to that the narrative that the rest of society are saying about trans people. And these people are part of the queer community, and they should have done better, and they acknowledge that later on, and they've done their best to rectify that quickly. Before we move on to the next question, I loved how the trans character was represented in Baby Reindeer. I was just like, that's really perfectly done.

Katie (Host) | 00:25:02 to 00:25:25
Because it is the conversation that's really difficult to have when you're dating and you're trans. Of like, okay, well, you're gonna have to tell the person at some point in time. When do you tell the person? And also having to think about safety in your mind. But then, like, it's always the way that sometimes people want to weaponize knowing that you're trans in that situation specifically.

Katie (Host) | 00:25:25 to 00:25:31
But far out. That was really good representation. I really liked that. I love the story, the way they did that. That was very, very.

Katie (Host) | 00:25:31 to 00:25:48
Yeah, absolutely. Because it's not a big deal. No. I remember I was watching one of those YouTube games where, in essence, they've got the cards and they ask the questions, and they sit across from each other, and it's like, the truth comes out at the end. That card game that they always try to sell you after they do it.

Katie (Host) | 00:25:48 to 00:25:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Or as you could just chatgpt it. But anyway, not the point. Buy the card game. Go support them.

Katie (Host) | 00:25:54 to 00:25:59
We support small business. There was one innocence. They were just like, I've got a secret. I'm bringing my friend along. Or my partner or whatever.

Katie (Host) | 00:25:59 to 00:26:25
I think it was crushes or whatever it was. And there was this trans woman who had kind of been making friends with this guy, and they really enjoyed hanging out together, and she wanted to kind of take it to the next level and wanted to see how he felt about it. Because, like, they were kind of in the stages of, like, early, early flirting and that kind of stuff. And through it, it was like, I've got a secret to tell you. And then she was just like, oh, I'm trans.

Katie (Host) | 00:26:26 to 00:26:36
And then she was like, does this affect how you think of me? And he's like, no, that's fine. Like, it doesn't bother me at all. Because wasn't he along the lines of, like, I've never been with anyone who's trans and stuff? I know.

Katie (Host) | 00:26:37 to 00:26:52
That was the beauty behind it. It was like, I've never been with somebody who's trans, but, like, I'm willing to take the journey with you. Like, why don't we Try it out. And I loved the fact that he was more like trans wasn't the issue in that. And when you read the room, it was like her being trans had nothing to do with the qualms.

Katie (Host) | 00:26:53 to 00:27:07
I think he, he was finding her personality a little bit too much. And this was just my read of it. I'm taking my interpretation. But it was interesting that he was just like, oh, yeah, we can go for drinks and stuff. But you could see that their personalities wasn't like 100 gel.

Archie (Host) | 00:27:08 to 00:27:15
I didn't say that. Did you not? No, I don't think they're gonna last the long haul. But I loved the fact that her being trans wasn't a big deal. He's just like, yeah, we can try that.

Katie (Host) | 00:27:15 to 00:27:45
That's not a problem at all. But yeah, so that's queerness and media and stuff. So it could be things like also looking at different media moments, like same gendered friendships in cartoons that felt different and feeling way too invested in certain relationships on tv. Those could be some signs of seeing queerness or moments in queer media that were like, okay, maybe, maybe there's something a bit different here. Do you know, I think it's really funny that they took off Bert and Ernie from Sesame from Sesame Street a while ago.

Katie (Host) | 00:27:45 to 00:28:02
And I, I don't think anyone was questioning that relationship ever. But evidently there's somebody out there who was just like, oh, that might be queer. And I, I would love to see if that person who was like, that might be queer might actually be queer themselves. Everybody used to talk about the fact that I were a queer couple. I never.

Archie (Host) | 00:28:02 to 00:28:10
But honestly, everybody used to talk about. Really? Yeah, I was just like, people were questioning it for years. Why are two grown men living together? Well, they're not grown men.

Katie (Host) | 00:28:10 to 00:28:26
They're two puppets. But puppets can live together. Putting societal norms on puppets is not right, guys. Anyway, listen, I'm gonna read some listener submissions that I asked for on threads. So what were signs that some of our listeners and some of our followers were queer?

Archie (Host) | 00:28:26 to 00:28:38
Someone says, never without a baseball cap, even at my communion party. Ah, fair. I get that. Begging my parents to take me to girls basketball games and not boys. And they did, but they still had no idea.

Katie (Host) | 00:28:39 to 00:28:50
Support the ladies. My walls were covered in pictures of Pink and Lance Bass. You know what? That's very fair. I feel like if Pink was your favourite singer when you were growing up.

Archie (Host) | 00:28:50 to 00:29:12
Queer, I can see it. My absolute obsession with Esmeralda from Hunchback of Notre Dame and Megara from Hercules and my sudden and dramatic swings between only wanting to wear super girly dresses and absolutely refusing to wear anything of the sort because it felt icky. Realising I'm lesbian and gender fluid made a whole lot of sense. Is that person me? Someone else?

Archie (Host) | 00:29:12 to 00:29:24
My first word was rainbow. Oh. I mean, I think that's just great for your parents. I think that says less about being queer. Binge watching the cartoon animated series Justice League just for Wonder Woman.

Katie (Host) | 00:29:24 to 00:29:34
Oh, yeah. I always wanted to see Strawberry Shortcake and Orange on screen together. Turns out I was low key shipping them. Aw, that's so cute. Someone else.

Archie (Host) | 00:29:34 to 00:29:47
I didn't chase boys in Kiss Chasey in the playground, only Rebecca. I never caught her, sadly. Oh, shame. Rebecca missed out, man. I was drawn to girls, but never had much interest in boys.

Archie (Host) | 00:29:48 to 00:30:08
I liked boys and sometimes girls that acted like boys. Yeah. Oh, I've got to say, when. Because I went to an all girl high school, I remember seeing the theatre plays and as soon as one of the girls was acting like a boy or like that little bit of a masculine trope, I was like, I love them. All my friends were queer and I looked up to every single one of them.

Archie (Host) | 00:30:09 to 00:30:25
I always thought, if only I could be like them. I also tended to puff my chest more often than not because I was told I looked more feminine that way. Aw. I told my mum I wanted a beard when I was 4 and was very offended when she replied, no, you don't. If I could have one without the sensory nightmare, I would now.

Archie (Host) | 00:30:26 to 00:30:31
Did you ever do. I used to do the bubble bath beards. Oh, yeah. Didn't everybody? I don't know.

Katie (Host) | 00:30:31 to 00:30:41
I used to do the. Maybe less the bubble bath beards. I used to do the bubble bath Mohawk and then the eyeballs. And then you'd take your eyeballs, not take your eyeballs out. But you do like the bubble bath mask.

Archie (Host) | 00:30:41 to 00:30:49
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Playing Abigold on the pub jukebox on repeat. Fucking love Abigold. I thought you'd enjoy that one.

Archie (Host) | 00:30:49 to 00:30:59
And then the last one. I never liked boys when the other girls did, so I got pressured a lot by them. Yeah. You know, and as a young queer kid, there can be that pressure because I never liked the boys and there was all that pressure. Who do you like?

Archie (Host) | 00:30:59 to 00:31:17
Who do you like? And I was like, I don't like anyone. Do you know what? That's a big thing, isn't it? Because when you start having crushes and being interested in, like, people generally, like, as you've gone through puberty, it can be a lot because people become really it's that whole gossip train of like, oh, are you dating anyone?

Katie (Host) | 00:31:17 to 00:31:26
Oh, are you seeing anyone? Oh, who are you interested in? And then often that's a kind of out. Yeah. And being like, I don't like them.

Katie (Host) | 00:31:26 to 00:31:37
I like Sally over there. So it's wild, you know, going through all of these other submissions from our followers and our listeners and it's. We had a lot of similar experiences, obviously, talking through. We can, like, yeah, we can relate to that. We can relate to that.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:37 to 00:31:52
And if you're listening, I'm sure you can relate to some of those as well. Growing up without realising it and then you get older and you're like, oh, all the signs were there. Whether they be big or small, the signs were there. And even if you don't have the signs, you're still valid. Everybody has their own journey.

Katie (Host) | 00:31:52 to 00:32:06
It's funny though, because some of the things that we were going through, I was just like, oh, I don't really feel like I had any. I was quite subtle because I was quite shy as a kid. So, like, if these things don't hit with you, you're not wrong. You're not wrong, you're not wrong in life. It's all good.

Archie (Host) | 00:32:06 to 00:32:17
Maybe you could say a little bit more eloquently, okay, sure. If these things don't resonate with you, it's fine. Like, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean that you're not queer. It just means that, like, that wasn't your story and that's good.

Archie (Host) | 00:32:18 to 00:32:29
Yeah. Everybody's journey is uniquely theirs. Just because you didn't love Kim Possible or you didn't love Esmeralda, which now I'm thinking about. I totally forgot about that. She was so fucking beautif.

Katie (Host) | 00:32:29 to 00:32:33
Like, I both wanted to be her and be in a relationship with her.

Archie (Host) | 00:32:35 to 00:32:53
If you like this episode, let us know. You can rate, review and subscribe on all the major platforms. If you leave us a comment and a five star review on Apple podcast, it really helps us. So that would be amazing if you wouldn't mind at all. And if you wanted to, you can head over to our socials on Instagram, threads, etc.

Archie (Host) | 00:32:53 to 00:33:09
And let us know your own childhood queer moments. I want to know all your childhood crushes, please. We love hearing from you, so don't forget, please get in contact, send us a message, send us a DM comment on our post. We love hearing from you. Yeah, it's bloody brilliant.

Archie (Host) | 00:33:09 to 00:33:15
Yeah. So I hope you enjoyed this episode and until next time, I hope that we have been perfectly queer.

Archie (Host) | 00:33:24 to 00:33:26
Let's be perfectly clear.