17. Debunking the National news segment on Detransitioning - Part 1

This week on Let’s Be Perfectly Queer Podcast, we debunk and unpack the problematic Channel 7 Spotlight: De-Transitioning. Archie watched the show so you don't have to. In this episode we discuss the misinformation and harm that this media segment has caused.

 So, what have we been up to? Well, we recently threw an epic Halloween party that was utterly spook-tacular, and we also cheered on our beloved Matildas during the Asian cup qualifiers. Not only did we witness some mind-blowing games, but we even caught the pre-games action, making it a double dose of pure sports awesomeness.

But hey, it's not only about sports here – it's also Pride month in Australia! There are oodles of fabulous Pride events happening all around, and guess what? We'll be at Fair Day! So, if you're in the area, come on down and say hello. We'd love to meet you!

But that's not all – we stumbled upon an amazing website called Querying the Map. Think of it as a virtual diary where people can pin their locations and share their beautiful stories. We're talking thousands of pins, each representing a unique and heartfelt experience. From proposals on Ferris wheels in Japan to stories of struggle and resilience in Russia, this platform has it all. We delve into some of the intricacies of these stories, discussing the complexity of queer life worldwide.

Navigating our queer identities can be challenging, but Querying the Map offers a beacon of support and validation. Reading these stories can make you feel less alone in your own experiences. Trust us – we've been there. And here's the best part: you can visit the website yourself and find resources in the show notes if you're seeking help. We're here for you, every step of the way.

But hold on – we're not done yet! Our main topic looks at transgender discrimination and the misinformation floating around in our beloved Australia. Brace yourself for a candid critique of a Channel 7 segment that portrayed detransitioners and the transgender community in a flawed light. Together, we'll unravel the complexity and challenges faced by those who choose to detransition, whether it involves reversing physical changes or simply adjusting their social environment.

So, my fabulous friend, if you're craving authentic queer stories, support, and some serious food for thought, this episode is an absolute must-listen. We're here to educate, inspire, and celebrate our community. Don't miss out! Hit that play button now. 

 
If you have found anything we have spoken about in this episode difficult or triggering, you can reach out to the following services:

Phone:

• Lifeline is available 24/7 – 13 11 14
• Beyondblue is available 24/7 - 1300 224 636
• Crisis Care Helpline is available 24/7 – 1800 199 008
• Kids Helpline is available 24/7 – 1800 55 1800
• RUAH Community Services is available 24/7 - 13 78 24

Online:

• Head to health online chat  - headtohealth.gov.au
• RUAH Community Services - ruah.org.au or connect@ruah.org.au 

 
 
Send us through your stories and experiences at letsbeperfectlyqueerpod@gmail.com

Links we found useful when researching for this episode:
https://www.outinperth.com/channel-7s-spotlight-set-to-run-story-on-detransitioning/

https://qnews.com.au/horrified-non-binary-aussie-launches-petition-against-channel-7/

Transcript

Podcast: Let's Be Perfectly Queer 

Episode Title: Discussing The De-Transitioning Spotlight Segment

Host(s): Archie, Katie, Archi 1, Katie 1

Guest(s): 

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Archie (Host) | 00:00:26 to 00:00:34
Welcome to let's Be Perfectly Queer, a. Queer podcast, creating space to talk about all things queer. My name is Archie. And I'm Katie. And we are your hosts.

Archie (Host) | 00:00:34 to 00:00:40
So what's been happening? We've had a lot happening. We've had so much going on. You've had a lot of night shifts. Yes.

Archie (Host) | 00:00:41 to 00:00:55
Which has not been conducive with recording a podcast. Guys, we need to get famous. I don't want to be famous, but also, I do want to be famous only, actually. No, I'll still preface that with, like, I don't want to be famous. I just want to have some.

Katie (Host) | 00:00:55 to 00:01:06
A little bit of money so we can do this a little bit easier. Yeah. And we don't have to have a job and then have this. And then this is basically a second job that we don't get paid for. It's a labour of love.

Archie (Host) | 00:01:06 to 00:01:11
Exactly. We also had our Halloween party. We did. Exactly. That was a lot of fun.

Archie (Host) | 00:01:11 to 00:01:21
And we went and watched the Matildas for the Asian cup qualifiers for the Olympics. Oh, my gosh. Asian qualifiers for the Olympics. Yeah, it was so good. So we saw two games.

Katie (Host) | 00:01:22 to 00:01:35
We've seen more than two games because we saw the pre games. It's been interesting. They're set up this time, having a game and then another game in the same kind of, like. So in an afternoon, you'll go see a 04:00 game and then you'll stay for the 07:00 game. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:01:35 to 00:01:54
I made sure to always go down for the previous games because I know. Know it's kind of sad when you're playing to almost an empty stadium or waiting for Australia. So I watched the Philippines versus Chinese Taipei, and then after that was the. You came along for the Matildas and the Iran. The only reason you didn't watch the first one was because you were at work, so you had to go home, get changed.

Katie (Host) | 00:01:54 to 00:02:06
Exactly. And then the second one we watched was Philippines versus Iran. Yep. And then it was Australia versus Chinese Taipei. And that Chinese Taipei keeper was incredible.

Katie (Host) | 00:02:06 to 00:02:29
Oh, absolutely brilliant. But then also, I want to mention the goalkeeper for Iran as well is just like. So. They were both so amazing because, of course, Australia, for these kind of games, were on the Offence, and so the defensive lineup for these kind of teams were just, like, getting hammered constantly. And for Chinese Taipei, like, whoa.

Katie (Host) | 00:02:29 to 00:02:46
The amount of goals that they saved from being actual. Well, amount of goals they saved, it was really. Really. Yeah, yeah. And you could see that Caitlin Ford was getting frustrated because the keeper just kept saving all of her chances, but the keeper was just really incredible.

Archie (Host) | 00:02:46 to 00:03:07
I thought they played really well. And it was so cool because after the game, who was it? The keeper. And, yeah, they ended up swapping jerseys. And then it was really beautiful because then that keeper also went out and ended up giving that jersey they'd gotten from Caitlin Ford to a Chinese Taipei fan, which I thought was so beautiful, they sought them out specifically.

Katie (Host) | 00:03:08 to 00:03:22
I thought, I was like, oh, that's really cute. I love that. Also, I just need to mention, because both your sister and I were fangailing out about the Iranian goalie. Yeah. And I was like, oh, my gosh, she is so beautiful.

Katie (Host) | 00:03:23 to 00:03:33
Anyway, just had to say it because I was like, oh, my God, makeup is on point. So both of you were like, oh, my God, she's absolutely stunning. She could be a model. I know. And then she got hit in the head a couple of times.

Katie (Host) | 00:03:33 to 00:03:46
Well, hit in the head at least once. And I was like, oh, no, she's going down for a concussion. Of course, the nursing brain went into me and I'm just like, dude, if she gets hit again, she looked like she was well woozed. Yeah. I'm surprised that they didn't pull her off a bit earlier for safety with concussions and stuff.

Archie (Host) | 00:03:46 to 00:03:55
But we're not the medical team, we're not the coaching stuff. So that was all them. It's so true. But going through my brain, I was just like, don't hit her face. It's so pretty.

Archie (Host) | 00:03:55 to 00:04:09
Yeah. It's also the start of Pride month in here in Australia. Yes. There's a lot of activities happening for Pride Month. I was going to say, I think there's a lot of other podcasts that go through those activities as well.

Katie (Host) | 00:04:09 to 00:04:18
And I think out in Perth has information about all that kind of stuFf. Yes. So out in Perth website. Yes. Perth website will have lots of information about what's happening.

Archie (Host) | 00:04:18 to 00:04:33
If you also go to the Pride WA website, you'll have information about what's happening through the month of November and Pride Fest. Yeah. And because this episode will be getting out just before we have Pride. Fair day. Fair day.

Katie (Host) | 00:04:33 to 00:04:50
Thank you. Thank you very much. I was just like, what are the many Pride events do we have? So if you guys are listening on Friday, on Saturday at Hyde Park, Sunday on Sunday. It's so funny starting well, I've had it in a calendar for such a long time and I'm pointing to my mind because my mind is not the calendar.

Katie (Host) | 00:04:50 to 00:05:00
The calendar is on our phones, a shared thing, because ADHD. But anyway, pop down. Moral of the story. We have market store yeah, we're going. To be down at Fair day.

Archie (Host) | 00:05:00 to 00:05:11
Come say hello. Come say hello. We've got a lot of merch and it's going to be a lot of fun. And please just come and chat to us because we love it and it's a long day for the storeholders. It's like ten till six, so please come and chat.

Archie (Host) | 00:05:11 to 00:05:17
Come hang out. Exactly. And we'll have my twin sister with us as well. Yeah. And you can be like, oh, wow, they don't look alike at all.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:19 to 00:05:40
Transitioning. You know it. So before we get into today's episode. So today's episode is going to be about specific segment about de transitioning that happened on a popular news channel in Australia. I don't want to give them more attention, so we're going to talk about that in a little bit and some of the myths and stuff that they said and I'm basically going to rip it to shreds.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:41 to 00:05:56
Yeah. As it should be. Yeah. It was very frustrating to watch, but before that, I just wanted to quickly point out, why is our pride in November? Do you know, I feel like we've discussed this previously and I cannot remember at all.

Archie (Host) | 00:05:56 to 00:06:13
Yeah. So I've taken this information from YACWA, which is an Instagram, who shared the information, because I actually couldn't find a lot of information. It's kind of hard to find. So, basically, in March 1990, homosexual acts were finally decriminalised in WA. This was the first step towards equality.

Archie (Host) | 00:06:13 to 00:06:31
In October of the same year, the Stonewall Union of Students of WA organised the first Pride march in the city. The union would later become Pride WA, and it shifted from October to November. I'm not sure why, but it did. We also have recently found out about a website called Querying the map. Yes.

Archie (Host) | 00:06:31 to 00:06:40
Which is really beautiful but also sad at the same time. I think it's one of the most. It's quite humbling in a way. It's beautiful. So if you haven't had a look at it, have a look.

Katie (Host) | 00:06:40 to 00:06:50
It's got a whole website. Yes. Called queryingthemap.com. Called queryingthemap.com. And it's where you can actually pin your location and write a little note associated with it.

Archie (Host) | 00:06:50 to 00:06:56
Yeah. And I think how you. Because you found it and then showed. It to me, it actually came up through TikTok. Someone was sharing it.

Archie (Host) | 00:06:56 to 00:07:14
I was like, this is absolutely beautiful. I thought, wow. And some of the stories were really sad. And when it first started, there was only a few pins, but now it's like thousands upon thousands of pins. And it's basically a community generated website where you can share your stories, concerns love for other places.

Archie (Host) | 00:07:14 to 00:07:21
I thought maybe I could share a couple before we get into the topic. Yeah, sounds good. All right. So this is in Tokyo or not Tokyo. So this is in Japan.

Archie (Host) | 00:07:21 to 00:07:39
So one of the South Islands with sweaty palms in the swaying Ferris wheel pod, I went down on one knee. I never knew asking someone out would be this hard. Never mind making it even worse by doing it in a quirky, old fashioned way, in a small Ferris wheeled with wild winds blowing from all directions. Let me think about it. A cynical reply came, followed shortly by, of course I was joking.

Archie (Host) | 00:07:39 to 00:07:51
Yes, you weirdo, get up. We kissed. As the sunlight crept through the now parting clouds shining onto our now renewed faces, my heart was overflowing. That's so gorgeous. Also, they got down on one knee just to ask.

Archie (Host) | 00:07:52 to 00:08:01
I didn't even know you do that, like, old fashioned. I was like, I didn't even know that was a thing. I don't think you anywhere. That's a very dramatic asking out. And I think it's really gorgeous in that way as well.

Archie (Host) | 00:08:01 to 00:08:10
I thought it was a beautiful one. This one is from Russia. If I was straight, would everything be different? I mean, the quick answer to that and unfortunate thing is, yes, it would be, honey. Yeah, it would.

Archie (Host) | 00:08:10 to 00:08:20
I think this was just above one of the islands off Russia. But I loved you. But you cold heartily reported me to. The gosh, I've actually. Yeah, I've read that one before.

Katie (Host) | 00:08:20 to 00:08:31
And I was like, I wonder how many times. I wonder if that happened now or if it's a memory from back in the day. You know what I mean? I have no idea. And wasn't there that secret wedding?

Archie (Host) | 00:08:31 to 00:08:41
Was it in Russia recently? Oh, really? I'm not sure what country, but recently there was a wedding. One of the grooms escaped and the other one got captured. And apparently you can get done by the death penalty, so it's very sad.

Archie (Host) | 00:08:42 to 00:09:00
My homophobic Russian grammar often says, luckily, he's only partying all night instead of being gay or taking drugs like all these other German teens. When she's talking about my cousin, that's the reason why I will never come out to my family. I don't want to be treated even more like a disappointment. Whoa. Also, that's a bit confusing that it's pinned in Russia, but it's saying, talking about German teens.

Archie (Host) | 00:09:00 to 00:09:13
Yeah. I have no idea. Yeah. But also, like, the fact that so much homophobia in that statement, and there's. Lots of different ones and there's some beautiful ones and there's some heart wrenching ones.

Archie (Host) | 00:09:13 to 00:09:30
And if you ever have some time to go and read other people's stories and see how you're not alone, other people do feel the same way. It's a really good time wasting thing to do. Time wasting, yeah. But you know what? It's better than scrolling, but it's one of those things that sometimes you just have time to waste.

Katie (Host) | 00:09:30 to 00:09:43
It sounds so weird because you know how as a kid you used to get bored, but we never get bored. Really? Do you get bored now? All the time, yeah. But no, I think it's just one of those things that is really nice to read, I guess, in that way, when I mean that it's humbling.

Katie (Host) | 00:09:43 to 00:10:05
It's really nice that when you start finding out that you're queer, which sounds such a weird thing to say, but. When you start to recognise that you. Are queer, when you're like, oh, God, I might be queer, oh, no. It's nice to look at these kind of things and realise you're not alone. No, it makes sense, because sometimes it's hard to find places to share your feelings and I feel like that it's all feelings.

Archie (Host) | 00:10:05 to 00:10:24
Yes. It's just so beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. And I think it helps others around the world to not feel alone. So if you are listening and you're feeling a little bit left out or alone, or you feel that you maybe have a situation that does not conducive for you to come out, why don't you just have a quick squiz at the site and maybe feel a little bit better, maybe worse.

Archie (Host) | 00:10:24 to 00:10:33
I don't know. Just have a look. And if you do feel worse, we always have links in our show notes to places you can get help. Yeah, there's always places. All right, should we start the topic?

Katie (Host) | 00:10:33 to 00:10:50
Yeah, let's do it. All right. So transgender individuals in Australia are experiencing increasing levels of discrimination and hate, according to advocates. Irresponsible media reporting is partly to blame. This is why today's episode, we're going to look at a recent segment and discuss the misconceptions that were discussed on the show.

Archie (Host) | 00:10:50 to 00:11:10
I would like to mention, this is my particular critique of the segment, and this is my. It may. Everybody may not feel the same, but this is how I felt watching it. I know that when I was watching it, I was messaging a family group and just saying how frustrated and mad I was at the whole thing because there are a lot of flaws in it and I also listened to recent podcasts surrounding it as well, which was. Yeah, it's really frustrating.

Archie (Host) | 00:11:11 to 00:11:32
So let's look at D transitioners first and their relation to the quid community. Okay, so firstly, do you know what a detransitioner is? Or if you could explain what a detransitioner. How would you Explain it in your own words? I would explain it as somebody who identifies as trans or had identified as trans and has made a decision to.

Katie (Host) | 00:11:34 to 00:11:52
What's a good way of putting it? I don't want to say, like to revert back to their previous pronouns that they may have used prior to transitioning. And that journey can also encapsulate surgical involvement, hormonal involvement. Sometimes it's just the changing of pronouns. It could just be social.

Archie (Host) | 00:11:52 to 00:12:04
Yeah. There's so many different factors to it, but generally that's how I understand it. Yeah. So Google says this. They are individuals who revert back to their assigned gender after living as a transgender person.

Archie (Host) | 00:12:04 to 00:12:30
They largely remain part of the queer community and generally support trans rights. However, a few may align with far right causes, as is the case with the segment. So the people that they chose were people who were very against the whole transgender journey or the transgender ideology. It's not common. It's not common for people who have detransitioned to go so far.

Archie (Host) | 00:12:30 to 00:12:37
Right. Yeah, that makes sense. It makes me think of people who have gone through conversion therapy. That's exactly the same. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:12:37 to 00:12:51
So let me introduce you to the introduct you. Thank you for introducing me. All right, so I'm just going to do it in introduction to the actual segment. So as of time of recording, it is still up on the website. So anybody can view it.

Archie (Host) | 00:12:51 to 00:13:01
It's about. I think it's 56 minutes long. Yeah. So I looked through a website and it's still up there. And I know that there is some petitions to get it taken down, so we might link that in our show notes.

Katie (Host) | 00:13:01 to 00:13:33
And it came up in September or something ridiculous like that. And it's still not down, even though, and I'm sure you'll go into it, they've issued a statement. They've issued a statement, but people have said it's kind of like freedom of knowledge, so people need to know about it, which I disagree, but we briefly touched on this segment in a previous episode, so if you wanted to go back and actually find out, you could listen and find out what it's from. But for those who have not caught up yet, there is a spotlight segment by a popular news channel in Australia and it's all over TikTok. It's reached other parts of the world as well.

Archie (Host) | 00:13:33 to 00:13:42
It's made headlines in different countries. And knowing what you know, is there. A reason that you're not identifying it. As Channel Seven don't want to get done for. I don't know.

Archie (Host) | 00:13:42 to 00:13:57
Should we just say it? Yeah, because it's just fact. It's not even alleged, so I wasn't. Going to say it because I didn't want to give them kind of a spotlight, but for you, it might be a bit confusing. So have you heard about the Channel Seven spotlight segment and what's your initial impressions on it?

Katie (Host) | 00:13:57 to 00:14:12
Absolutely. I've definitely heard of it and it's been highlighted to me by a lot of friends as well as yourself. I've not watched it. I've seen the reaction from it, from trans. Some trans people that I follow online.

Katie (Host) | 00:14:12 to 00:14:34
The reason that I've not specifically watched it is because I know for my own mental health and it will make me incredibly angry. And it already is making me incredibly angry. From what? The harm that I've seen people have, the harm that it's created in both our community as well as those individuals that were involved. I can't remember what your question was.

Archie (Host) | 00:14:36 to 00:14:47
What's your initial impression of it? Yeah. That's all you answered. It's fine. And I think that this episode might be a part two because Katie could possibly swear a lot and get very emotional.

Archie (Host) | 00:14:47 to 00:15:01
So we'll find out because I'm going to basically tell you what happened. And I was going to leave some names out and I was going to think, but you know what? I'm going to go through it. It's going to be a long episode or part one, part at two, so strap in. So the investigative programme titled Detransitioning was described by the network as a controversial story.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:01 to 00:15:16
That's what they described it as. I think it was like the most controversial story of the year. It claimed to expose the supposed irreparable harm experienced by a generation of confused kids wrongly diagnosed as transgenDer. Was that their summary? Yeah, well, basically.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:16 to 00:15:22
But that's basically what it was. Yeah. Oh, gosh, that already gets my hackles up. Yeah, I know. You're going to hate this.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:22 to 00:15:33
You are absolutely going to hate this. And listening at home, you may hate this as well. So critiques of the spotlight segment. So I'm going to go through and I'm going to talk about each point and you don't have to watch it after this, so don't give them the airtime. Just listen to this and I would give you it all.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:33 to 00:16:02
So the trailer for the segment claimed thousands of kids are regretting it and used photos of trans people pre and post transition, side by side from social media to support its claims, without citing any data or studies throughout this whole thing. There is not one study or data to claim or back up what they're saying. Not one. First of all, thousands and thousands, right? I don't even think that there are thousands and thousands of people out there in Australia, in Australia, who have identified themselves as trans.

Katie (Host) | 00:16:02 to 00:16:30
So much to outline that the media could find them and be like, oh, look at all these people. And then on top of that, detransition. And this is where it all started. So this is where it all started, because if you've been hiding under a rock, you might not have seen on TikTok of these famous transgender and non binary social media influences or personalities who've come forward and said that their images and their likeness was used without permission. And it wasn't only Australians, it was from all over the world.

Archie (Host) | 00:16:30 to 00:16:52
There's people from Canada and America and stuff as well, and other countries whose images were used without their consent. And obviously it caused a bit of a. I get an issue because some people are like, well, you put your stuff out there, but it's like, yeah, but they've taken it out of context and they're saying that I possibly regret. And some of the stuff kind of made them look like they didn't really understand transition. It was just not great.

Archie (Host) | 00:16:52 to 00:17:20
It was not great. So journalist Liam Bartlett's lack of balance was very evident in his choice of interviewees favouring transphobic parents, anti trans D transitioners and discredited medical practitioners. The segment was primarily opinion based without substantiating evidence at all. It was basically people's opinions of what transgender people are like and the medical system surrounding transitioning. How is this level of bias gone onto a major TV channel?

Katie (Host) | 00:17:20 to 00:17:41
Like, I don't understand how if you look at any other minority, how you could gather people around and be like, oh, you don't like this minority? Come have a talk about it. You don't like this minority, come have a talk about it. And not even that, the fact that there's data, how would this be appropriate for anybody else? What if they'd done this to people who are different, religious people?

Katie (Host) | 00:17:43 to 00:17:56
It baffles me. Fuck, am I going to have aneurysm? You're not going to cope. But basically, even, like, ten minutes in. So it's an opinion piece and it's not well researched.

Archie (Host) | 00:17:57 to 00:18:25
And I think what they've done is they're like, okay, transitioning is a big thing in America right now. Let's jump on the views. And if you are LGBTQIA plus or an ally, please avoid all posts that reference this spotlight because it's extremely homophobic and it makes you feel so little and so. Alienated. Yeah, it just makes you feel like, okay, we thought the world was so much further than it is, and it makes you feel like, oh, crap.

Archie (Host) | 00:18:25 to 00:18:37
Like, people are crap. Do you know, the Internet is generally making me feel like that at the. Moment with all the anti LGBT stuff that's going on. And so it's like, it's just avoid it at all costs. Otherwise you're going to be upset and you're going to be angry and you're going to be really frustrated.

Archie (Host) | 00:18:37 to 00:18:50
The world and a lot of people out there actually support this segment and they're like, oh, you're so brave for actually be covering this topic that nobody will touch. Except it's all lies. It's all lies. And I'm going to keep going on about that. So brave.

Archie (Host) | 00:18:50 to 00:19:14
Fuck off. Liam Bartlett's lack of balance in interviews was quite noticeable. What do you think could have been done differently to ensure a fair representation and a real look at this idea of de transitioning and transitioning? Well, I think evidently, like you've said, is an opinion piece, and Ian Bartlett evidently already had an opinion on this. It's not like he's gone into it in the same way that I've forgotten his name now.

Katie (Host) | 00:19:14 to 00:19:21
And I'm like Justin Trudeau. But that's not Justin Trudeau. That's the Canada's president. Thoreau. Louis Thoreau.

Katie (Host) | 00:19:21 to 00:20:13
Yeah, I'm going to start that again. It's not like he goes into the same way that Louis Thoreau does or that really even, like Andrew Jenton used to go into things as an investigator with an open idea of what things were about and wanting to actually, it's an inquisitive look at things because I think that's the only way you can address something if you've got nothing to do with it. Like, if it's not part of your life, you can't really come in with an added bias because it means that the only people that you're going to find opinions on are also going to have that bias. But also people are not going to want to talk to you if the way that you address it is like, evidently detransitioning is bad, which it's not bad. Some people do detransition or being trans is so bad that people do detransition.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:13 to 00:20:26
Like, he already came out with it. Such, this outlook that I don't think that there was any way of this to succeed whatsoever. And plus he's like a 56 year old, six man cis man. Yeah, six man. Six man.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:26 to 00:20:41
He's a fucking six man. He wasn't the right person to be doing this interview. No. He came in with his own biases and his own ideology and ideas around transitioning and it was very, very obvious. And you're right, it was actually just chasing a bandwagon that has been happening in America.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:41 to 00:21:02
And no matter if you're doing that, that's not investigative journalism. No, like, you were literally just being like, oh, I know, I'm going to get views about this. And they wanted to get a certain point across and they did get a certain point across, but it is incorrect. Yeah, the point is they're fuck heads already. We are, what, 15 minutes in and we have Katie's first swear?

Katie (Host) | 00:21:02 to 00:21:22
No, I've already sworn four times. Oh, really? You've been counting? The promo goes on to see Bartlett saying children are being told they should change from boy to girl or girl to boy from as young as twelve years old, when in actual fact, minors are not able to access gender affirming care without the consent of both parents. And many today continue to experience delays in receiving treatment.

Archie (Host) | 00:21:22 to 00:21:37
So saying that, oh, it's as easy as going to a doctor, and they do say this quite a lot in this segment. As easy as going to a doctor saying, I am transgender and you're going to start hormone or gender affirming care. It's not the way it works in Australia. It is a long process. It's not going to happen overnight.

Archie (Host) | 00:21:37 to 00:22:01
For some of the transgender individuals just in Australia to see a gender endocrinologist, they've got weights of 16 to 18 months. So it's not like overnight you can decide that you want to be a boy or a girl. That's not the way it works. And the way that the segment has framed it makes it look like you literally go to your local GP, say, I am transgender and I want to start hormone therapy. And that's not the way it works at all.

Katie (Host) | 00:22:02 to 00:22:34
No. There are so many different factors to it. You got to have evidence that you've lived with having different pronouns, you have to go to a psychiatrist, you have to actually go to a GP, you have to be referred specifically to other healthcare practitioners, and that all has to be such a lengthy process. And then on top of that, that has to actually be okayed by every single individual in that forum of specialists to say, oh, yes, this person is trans, without a doubt. Yeah, that can take years.

Katie (Host) | 00:22:34 to 00:22:47
It can take years to happen and. It all depends on your age as well. So me being older, when I started transitioning, it was a little bit quicker, but it was still like, twelve months. Yeah, but you being. Because you were 27, 28.

Archie (Host) | 00:22:47 to 00:22:56
No, I was in my 30s. I'd socially transitioned 29, but 30, I think. 30, 31 was when I first. I've only been on hormones for, like, four or five years. Four years.

Archie (Host) | 00:22:56 to 00:23:19
So, yeah, I think, like, late 29. Yeah, I think my 30th was the first time I celebrated as Archie, I think, but it took a long time. So I was socially Archie, I think, for a good year. And then I had to go to a doctor, get a referral for a mental health plan. Then I went to go see a psychologist to get my initial diagnosis so I could start hormone therapy.

Archie (Host) | 00:23:19 to 00:23:43
Then I went to an endocrinologist who then referred me to a different psychiatrist who specialised. So psychiatrists can give you the prescription, basically, and psychologists can't. So I had to go to a psychiatrist then and I think it was three to six months of therapy. Then they also had to meet my parents. So she said, basically, if I did not bring in my parents, it was going to be another six months of therapy.

Archie (Host) | 00:23:43 to 00:24:07
If I was able to bring my parents in to back up everything that I've been saying, then she'd be able to sign me off quicker and be able to get me over the next part. So I had to wait till my parents, because my parents don't live here, so I had to wait till my parents were in Perth to then be able to say, hey, can we book in an appointment? They're in Perth. So then they could sit down for an hour and chat with the therapist without me in the room. I wasn't allowed to be in the room so that they could back up my story.

Archie (Host) | 00:24:07 to 00:24:31
And then I came back in, she's like, yep, all like, they've verified everything. And basically it was just things like, have I always had kind of gender questioning? Or let's talk about, like, a mum was like, I only ever played with boys toys, cut off their hair as soon as they could, thought they were. A boy their whole childhood, that kind of stuff. So it was able to back up a lot of the things that I said.

Archie (Host) | 00:24:31 to 00:24:53
So she said, yes, there was a history of gender incongruence. Throughout my whole life. And so that was like a good twelve months. And then I was able to start hormones. And if you think about it, for childRen, yes, people, and I would imagine, granted, I also do not have experience specifically with children because first of all, in my whole nursing career, I've never cared for children.

Archi 1 (Host) | 00:24:53 to 00:25:15
No. But it's that whole thing that I can imagine people being more careful with children. Oh, yeah. And because you've got a shorter time period to be dealing with as well, of evidential facts to establish whether they actually are trans or not, all of this is just like. And you need parent permission.

Archie (Host) | 00:25:15 to 00:25:29
If your parents say no, there's nothing you can do, do you know what I mean? It's not like they're going to give you hormones without parental consent. Yeah, but basically. So the segment focused on 3D transitioners. And it's funny because they know thousands of people are destransitioning in Australia.

Archie (Host) | 00:25:29 to 00:25:58
They could only find three who were willing to talk, two who are from Australia, one from America, who's already known as being quite problematic with their ideas of detransitioning. So it's like, okay, you couldn't find all these thousands of people. So the segment focused on these three, which does not really add up to the story for me, that there are thousands in Australia when they had to resort to interviews with a well known American detransitioner. So the other two interviewed were from Australia, so I think one was from Perth and one was from Melbourne. From memory, I'm not going to name them.

Archie (Host) | 00:25:58 to 00:26:18
Know, they've obviously been. Some of the interviews you can see they were kind of coerced into saying certain stuff, so I'm not going to name them because that's just how I feel about that. The segment also had two parents of a transgender child who was. There was no actual mention if the child had started transitioning or transitioned at all. And their testimonies were extremely problematic for me.

Archie (Host) | 00:26:18 to 00:26:43
Oh, so the two parents who weren't happy with their child transitioning and the school not letting them know, so they obviously were going through kind of a social transition, and I think school is a safe place to do that. And they were very mad that the school didn't let them know. And I think there's a reason because these two are very homophobic and very transphobic. So just a trigger warning for the moment. We're going to be talking about suicide, self harm.

Katie (Host) | 00:26:43 to 00:27:14
So if you find these kind of topics triggering, please just skip ahead. We'll put something in the show notes from when you can actually skip ahead, too. And if you are yourself suffering from thoughts of self harm or suicide or know somebody who is, we'll put links down in the show notes, as we always do. So the child was admitted to hospital because they were suicidal and the parents admitted them under their dead name, but the hospital changed it to their preferred name where the parents were very unhappy about that. The child was 17 at the time and the doctors wanted to refer to the child.

Archie (Host) | 00:27:14 to 00:27:35
They wanted to refer the child to a child. Endocrinologist. The host at one point asked the parents, do you know what the doctors were saying to your child or to her? Because they didn't want to actually refer to them as their preferred gender without you there. The mum replied, telling her she needs to get onto testosterone and, you know, have a breast cut off, you weren't in the room.

Archie (Host) | 00:27:35 to 00:28:35
You weren't in the room. So how do you know what was said? Yeah, and part of a process is if you're dealing with a patient, is making sure you actually get information from the patient. So it kind of seems triggering and difficult in a way that if you're wanting to have a discussion and as a healthcare professional, you can't get all the information while there are other people around, then it's a very good tool to be able to have other people step outside while you can actually have those meaningful connections and build rapport, so you can actually optimise what care you can for your patient. Because we have to look at from a holistic point of view, especially if somebody is coming for suicide, there's obviously some catalyst to these feelings that if they can be spoken about, then what's better that you don't speak about them and this person does suicide?

Archie (Host) | 00:28:36 to 00:28:48
Is that the better option in this kind of situation? Yeah. And for me, I was like, how would you know what they said? You weren't even in the room. And they also said, like you just mentioned, the staff said, would you rather have an alive son or a dead daughter?

Archie (Host) | 00:28:48 to 00:29:10
And that made them even more mad because they just couldn't wrap it around their head at all. I find that completely baffling. I'm glad the staff were so factual about that because same. That is what you're weighing up there. You're weighing up if your values and opinions are more important than this person being alive.

Archie (Host) | 00:29:10 to 00:29:30
And what you're saying is, yes, my values and opinions are more important than my child living, which is fucking disgusting and is poor parenting. Swear number five. I think I've snuck in a couple of more. So there was one part where they're outside a Maple Leaf house. I think it's like where kids go.

Archie (Host) | 00:29:30 to 00:29:36
I couldn't. Not really sure. But they said 96 kids at a Maple Leaf house are on puberty blockers. How do they know they are transgender? They didn't say anything.

Archie (Host) | 00:29:36 to 00:29:48
They kept saying about, oh, you know, that these kids are on puberty blockers. But people go on puberty blockers for so many different reasons. Firstly, how did you know that many kids are in there? That was my first question. How did they know?

Archie (Host) | 00:29:48 to 00:30:00
That's private information, that's confidential information and. They'Re kids, so that information is not known to the public. So how did they know that information? Firstly, you don't know the many reasons that kids do go on puberty blockers. There are many reasons.

Archie (Host) | 00:30:00 to 00:30:15
And so they've just used this small statistic. This is probably one of the only statistics they have in the whole thing, this small statistic, and they've twisted it and I just don't get it. And they were like, oh, and Perth Children Hospital didn't return our calls. Of course they didn't. It's private.

Archie (Host) | 00:30:15 to 00:30:25
They're not going to share that information about a child. First of all, it's confidential and they know better than that. Media companies actually do know better from that. From working in a hospital. They should not.

Archie (Host) | 00:30:26 to 00:30:41
What are they going to do? They're not going to tell you, firstly, anything about the child. Secondly, you've got these opinions. They don't have time to discuss your opinions. If you want to discuss your opinions with somebody, go find a specialist who's opening to discussing those opinions.

Archie (Host) | 00:30:41 to 00:30:59
These people are in a hospital trying to look after sick kids or trying to optimise the health in people. Yeah. So they don't have the time. So, yeah, they did say that the Perth Children's Hospital were named as one of the facilities that helped treat young people and change their sex. They'd also mentioned other children's hospitals around Australia, and most of them said no, obviously.

Archie (Host) | 00:30:59 to 00:31:08
And then the host said one thing they all had in common is secrecy. No shit, Sherlock. It's confidential. And the kids.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:10 to 00:31:13
Secrecy, I don't understand.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:16 to 00:31:34
If you actually look at it, there is so many things wrong with this segment. Are you sure that this wasn't meant to be a comedy? But I also think it also comes from my media background and how many things are wrong? Because we looked at media law and ethics and we looked at all that kind of stuff and it goes against everything. But anyway, so there was also a Dr.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:34 to 00:31:51
Jillian Spencer who was a child psychiatrist who worked at a child psychiatrist hospital, and she had been suspended. So I don't think she's. People don't get suspended for no reason. Guys just saying. Yeah, and they're just saying how brave and how she stood up against kids transitioning and all that kind of stuff.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:51 to 00:32:00
But she'd been suspended, obviously. So I don't think she is that much of a credible source, in my opinion. What's your opinion on that? Absolutely. So first of all, you don't get suspended for something.

Archie (Host) | 00:32:00 to 00:32:49
You have to have a fair amount of malpractice suits against you, which have to come under evidential information, which this doesn't at all, this whole piece anyway. But also when you practise in the medical field and psychiatrists do Come under like, you have to study medicine first. You have an oath that you have to say when you become a doctor, that's all about doing no harm. And I don't know specifically, hence not a doctor, but it is an oath that you say that says you won't do any harm and that you don't allow biases within your care. It sounds like, from that perspective, that her biases and her ideas and opinions have gotten in the way.

Archie (Host) | 00:32:49 to 00:33:03
And this is coming from somebody who has nothing, no information on this. But if she's speaking out against something that isn't evidence based, then I'm going. To talk a lot more about her. Oh, dear. Okay, good.

Archie (Host) | 00:33:03 to 00:33:32
So basically, the host asked something along the lines of, how many times would I have to go to the clinic before I could start my child on some sort of hormones? This psychiatrist, which I have no idea what hospital would ever do this. I've seen kids see a social worker for two sessions, then they've been referred to the paediatric sexual health physician to start puberty blockers. Yes, they've been referred. So she was basically saying, and she implied this several times throughout, that it doesn't take that long to get your diagnosis and then start hormones.

Archie (Host) | 00:33:32 to 00:33:45
A social worker cannot provide hormones. They can't. They can refer your child to go see this paediatric sexual health physician, but then that physician will have to refer them to someone else and they still. Need to be seen by a psychiatrist. That's what I'm saying.

Archie (Host) | 00:33:46 to 00:34:13
It's just the first step in many of steps. She later goes on to say, it's a couple of hours chat to start something that could potentially impact your life forever. It's a couple of hours chat to start a very, very long journey to possibly get on hormones. Why shed this misinformation and blatant lies and just to back up something that you believe in? I'm so confused because it's such an overarching statement that just doesn't seem to make any sense.

Archie (Host) | 00:34:13 to 00:34:58
So in the same way that you can have a consultation, except actually less of a way, because if you want a consultation for a surgical intervention that happens to be a cosmetic surgery and it's not gender conforming surgery, then you only really need to have one consultation before you book things in. And this is non gender conforming surgery. So I'm talking about having nose jobs or having breast implants or having liposuction. Liposuction or for cis males, breast augmentation related to gynomastia. None of these things need to have a psychiatry assessment, except for anybody who has gender dysphoria, for anything that's gender confirming.

Archie (Host) | 00:34:58 to 00:35:22
And I did actually like it earlier when they were talking about sex because I'm just like, well, that's a blatant misunderstanding of the difference between sex and gender. And that was really frustrating throughout as well. Yeah, because I'm like, you haven't even got the terminology correct of what you're speaking about. Like I said, it's like you've got so many other people who can go and do these things really quickly that. Sure.

Archie (Host) | 00:35:22 to 00:35:35
And people are like, oh well, if you want to get horns, you can get horns. And by all means, if you're wanting to do this kind of stuff to your body, that's perfectly fine. But then you're suddenly saying that, oh no, it's way too fast for people who happen to be trans.

Archie (Host) | 00:35:38 to 00:36:05
It was a bit ridiculous. But basically every time, because he asked this a couple of times and basically implying that it takes 2 hours to start hormones and that's not it at all. And what I felt really frustrating, firstly, it's sheding all this misinformation to people who are transphobic to share these lies and misinformation, but also to a young transgender kid who might be going through that kind of journey and they think it's going to take them 2 hours not knowing. It's going to take them 18 to 24 months. And that could do a lot of mental health harm to a kid like that.

Archie (Host) | 00:36:05 to 00:36:21
So it's just don't share this kind of stuff. She also goes on to say that 95% of kids who go onto puberty blockers will go onto cross sex hormones. So basically that's HRT and the path sex hormone that's what that she called it. So wrong terminology again. Anyway, that's what she called it.

Archie (Host) | 00:36:21 to 00:36:38
And the pathway beyond that is lifelong and includes dangerous surgery. But if 90% of kids who go onto puberty blockers will go onto hormone replacement therapy, doesn't that mean they are transgender? Yeah. So she's trying to use it in a way that. To back up her argument, but was.

Katie 1 (Host) | 00:36:38 to 00:36:45
Incorrect, but also dangerous surgery. All surgery is dangerous. Every single surgery. So it's dangerous. Every single surgery you have.

Archie (Host) | 00:36:45 to 00:37:00
Cosmetic surgery, is dangerous, and that's not life threatening, and people still do it. Did you know? The highest risk surgery that you can actually have done, and granted, these statistics, probably from a year ago that I was aware of, is a Brazilian butt lift. Oh, interesting. I've heard there's a lot of complications with that.

Katie 1 (Host) | 00:37:00 to 00:37:25
The level of complications associated with that is so high that most practitioners or cosmetic surgeons will not actually do them because there are so many risks that are both, like, infective the surgery itself. There are so many nerves that can end up being impinged. There's so many things associated with it. And yet they're saying that dangerous surgeries. Yeah, every surgery has level of danger to it, but there's no, like, you can't class it as.

Katie 1 (Host) | 00:37:26 to 00:37:46
This is just like me coming out as a healthcare practitioner saying you can't say dangerous surgeries. Dangerous is not the correct terminology either. There are side effects and risks. It can only be dangerous if you're, like, taking a machete to somebody without any anaesthesia and, like, what, on survivor or something like that. It doesn't make any fucking sense.

Katie 1 (Host) | 00:37:47 to 00:37:58
Oh, gosh, I feel physically aggressive. Yeah, I've told you we're going to get mad. She also said once you start taking them, you're on that bus. Isn't that the point? Bus?

Katie 1 (Host) | 00:37:58 to 00:38:39
We're not on fucking speed. She also says that there is no evidence that social transition or puberty blockers or cross sex hormones, as she kept referring to it throughout the whole thing, reduces the suicide risk in children with gender dysphoria. There is so much research out there that proves that kids, specifically transgender or non binary binary kids who go onto puberty blockers or hormone replacement therapy, it reduces the risk of suicide. If you're allowing somebody who's trans to be trans, and the thing that causing them to feel suicidal or self harm was the fact that they couldn't live an authentic life, and suddenly you're allowing that the catalyst for the depression and suicidality is gone. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:38:39 to 00:38:50
And there's so much research, so where does she go off saying that? There's no research. There is so much research that shows that it does reduce harm. Does she have no access to Google? Who knows?

Archie (Host) | 00:38:50 to 00:39:05
So she's been labelled as transphobic and she says she sees it as a really serious child protection issue. She's just transphobic. I see her as a child protection issue. Sorry. Professor Ian Hickey, do you want to tell us a bit about him because you had a quick Google search?

Archie (Host) | 00:39:05 to 00:39:35
Because I didn't go into that much. I was just a bit interested to see what his background was, because whenever you talk about a professor, to be able to identify or understand where their background comes from so you know what they're talking about specifically. So I had a quick look up at Professor Ian Hickey and it says that he's a co director at the University of Sydney's Brain and Mind Centre. Out of every person that was interviewed, he seemed like the person who had the biggest broad idea of everything. He was the only person out of everyone who kept getting cut off.

Archie (Host) | 00:39:35 to 00:39:52
The host kept cutting him off because he was trying to obviously, prove a point that was against his idea and he kept cutting him off when he started to get things. But everything that he was saying was correct. And so it was very, very frustrating that the host would not let him finish. Professor Ian Hickey said, no, you're dramatising. You are dramatising a particular side of the story.

Archie (Host) | 00:39:52 to 00:40:08
You're not presenting an accurate. You know, parents are telling this, parents are telling that it's not actuallY. What's the facts. There is legal action happening with those transgender personalities who images were used without their permission in this documentary. We are probably going to have to start a part two.

Archie (Host) | 00:40:08 to 00:40:42
So this will be the end of part one because this is a big topic and we don't want to rush through it. I hope that you've enjoyed part one or got really frustrated and angry like Katie has in part one. Absolutely. It's such a big topic to cover, I find, and the fact that we are having to do two parts on it because there's so many different factors that feed into why it's just such a harming thing to have out there in media for people to see who might not have any idea about it, and that's why I think it's so important to debunk so many different elements to it. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:40:42 to 00:40:59
And the thing is as well, for people who don't have nonbinary, LGBTQA plus transgender people in their lives, they're going to see this as the truth and the fact. And so it's very harmful for the trans community. And watching this, I was livid. I was like, are we just going to go backwards? What happens now?

Archie (Host) | 00:40:59 to 00:41:19
And as mentioned earlier on, that there are transgender individuals in Australia who are experiencing increased levels of discrimination, and segments like this do not help at all. Not at all. And when we're trying to support people and then these kind of things come just. It's really stabbing the guts, isn't it? Yeah, it's frustrating.

Archi 1 (Host) | 00:41:19 to 00:41:38
And we did mention, I feel like we've been mentioning it every episode lately, that it seems like the rest of the world is just hating on LGBTQIA plus people. And I don't get it. And I've never felt so frustrated. And when it's blatantly out there and it's thrown, shoved down your face about how many people hate you. Yeah, it's really hard some days.

Archi 1 (Host) | 00:41:39 to 00:41:49
It's really hard to see that the world hates you. Probably didn't like this episode, but there will be a part two. But I hope that you did enjoy what we had to say. Tell us what you think about it. So we'll put this one out.

Katie 1 (Host) | 00:41:49 to 00:42:09
You'll hear another one soon about the part two of this detransitioning saga. But, yeah, tell us how you feel about it. And like we said, there'll be a lot of supports in the show notes. But, yeah, if you have seen it as well, do you agree with what we say? Do you have more to add or do you think I'm completely reading too much into it?

Archi 1 (Host) | 00:42:09 to 00:42:18
Because you never know ADHD. You look at every little sign and every little factor and then you rip it apart. But, yeah, no, I think it's just a good analysis, to be honest. Yeah. Thank you for listening to us.

Katie 1 (Host) | 00:42:18 to 00:42:40
And don't forget to follow on all. The different platforms and rate review and subscribe. Yeah. And it's really important that if you are listening to us on, like, Google Podcasts or Apple Podcasts or Spotify or however you listen to us, if you do follow us, then you can hear us when we do put out our lovely episodes because at the moment, they have been a little bit infrequent. And thank you for your patience.

Katie 1 (Host) | 00:42:40 to 00:42:48
But, yeah, if you follow us, you'll be able to find them when they do come out. Yeah, it's like. It's a surprise. Like when you order something online and you get a present. That's us.

Archi 1 (Host) | 00:42:50 to 00:42:54
All right, until next time, I hope that we have been test quickly, clear.