Let's be perfectly Queer Podcast
An Australian queer podcast hosted by a Transgender teacher and a Pansexual healthcare worker, dedicated to sharing diverse queer stories, offering insightful resources, and featuring interviews with experts on key LGBTQIA+ topics. Join us as we create an inclusive space for education, discussion, and community.
Let's be perfectly Queer Podcast
16. 1 Million March 4 Children
This episode has a warning: there are some mentions of suicide and depression in this episode.
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Archie (Host) | 00:00:04 to 00:00:16
Should we actually start the episode? No, I don't want to. All right. Welcome to let's Be Perfectly Queer, a queer podcast creating space to talk about all things queer. My name is Archie.
Archie (Host) | 00:00:16 to 00:00:30
And I'm Katie. And we are your hosts. Questions of how you identify thinking, answers to clarify whether you're queen or somewhere in between. Let's be perfectly clear. And welcome back for another week.
Archie (Host) | 00:00:30 to 00:00:48
Yes, there has been a little bit of a delay in it. We do have other lives. Sometimes it's really hard to because we do research and then we talk and then we also edit and then I also do the video editing, so it does take a little bit of time. And if you have noticed there, the videos have been a little bit delayed. They're there.
Archie (Host) | 00:00:48 to 00:01:04
I just keep forgetting to press up. And we work and we do other things. Yeah. So this week, unless we've got any news, is there anything that you want to not news in particular, as in world news? Because it is what is, but what have we been up to?
Archie (Host) | 00:01:04 to 00:01:11
What have we been up to? I was on school holidays. You were? I think we already did that last episode. Yeah, but I was still on school holidays.
Archie (Host) | 00:01:11 to 00:01:21
That's true. And then went back to school and frantically trying to organise things for the week one. So it's been week one of school, which is hectic always hectic and then I got a tattoo yesterday. You did? Yeah.
Archie (Host) | 00:01:21 to 00:01:38
And I was going to start very small, but then I saw the design and my impulsiveness took over and I was like, yeah, let's make it big. I know, it did, didn't it? It fits really well within his face. So Archie is covered in tatoos and, like, his leg is specifically associated with Pokemon, I'm pretty sure. Is it your?
Archie (Host) | 00:01:38 to 00:01:51
Most of it. Most of it's Pokemon, so I started so most of it's Pokemon, so I have before my first one was Charmander in a Captain America outfit, because I was like, yeah, that's awesome. That's all I wanted. That's all I wanted. And then I was thinking about it and I was talking to tattoo artists and we're like, oh, who else could we combine?
Archie (Host) | 00:01:51 to 00:02:06
And we're like, oh, yeah. And then I wanted to do Squirtle in an Iron Man suit, because when back in the day with the Game Boy, these were my startup Pokemon. So the Pokemon that I used to start with, when you got to choose which Pokemon you could play to start if you were too young, you're not going to understand that at all. And then who did you start with? Charmander.
Archie (Host) | 00:02:07 to 00:02:20
Charmander. Charmander or Squirtle, depending, because obviously with the Game Boy and which version you got, was it red, yellow, silver, blue? Would depend on which starter Pokemon you could choose from. Yeah. And so for me, it was always those two.
Archie (Host) | 00:02:20 to 00:02:43
And then I really like Pikachu, but Pikachu was never a starter unless you look at the Pokemon that you can start now with, I'm pretty sure you can start with. But so with Pikachu, because on the games, because the ones that I had, you couldn't have Pikachu as a starter, but I really like Pikachu anyway, and so I was like, what could Pikachu be? And I was like, Pikachu has to be Thor. So that's what I got the other day. And it was supposed to be small and fit in like a little ankle gap.
Archie (Host) | 00:02:43 to 00:03:12
And then I saw the design and I got there and I was like, yeah, let's make this big. It always happens like that when you go and get tattoos. It's like to fit the space. And also, if you've got such a rad design that you want to showcase what it really looks like and the intricacies of it as well, sometimes it works better for a bigger tattoo, and if you're not constrained by worried about how much tattoo you've got covering and the cost and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, so with looking at it, I was like, if it goes smaller, you're going to miss all the really cool little bits to it.
Archie (Host) | 00:03:13 to 00:03:19
Yeah, true. That's very true. I know that feeling. And we've also been getting a house ready for Halloween. We're big on Halloween.
Archie (Host) | 00:03:19 to 00:03:34
We love Halloween. Big on Halloween. Only for the last so this is our second year hosting Halloween, and it is our holiday, like our holiday with our friends. Someone has a holiday, so we have Halloween and someone else has Christmas, someone else has Easter. And those the main ones.
Archie (Host) | 00:03:35 to 00:03:58
We're in Australia. I mean, we don't really celebrate that many different holidays. I know over in Canada and America and India and all that other kind of stuff, you've got a lot of different holidays that you celebrate. But even though we're incredibly multicultural here in Australia, and people who come from different cultures will celebrate different things, if you're like. Bit basic.
Archie (Host) | 00:03:59 to 00:04:11
Basic. We are a bit basic. Back in Knaven, we used to celebrate the Moon Festival and that kind of stuff as well, because they had a high Vietnamese community up there. Yeah, it's a shame that you don't do that now. And Chinese New Year and that kind of thing.
Archie (Host) | 00:04:12 to 00:04:23
Yeah, I still go into the city and wander around during Chinese New Year and stuff, but not as big as used to be. Exactly. It's very true, isn't it? I think it also depends on who you surround yourself with. That's true.
Archie (Host) | 00:04:23 to 00:04:31
We do have a lot of multicultural friends. We do, yeah, that's very true. Anything else been happening? I don't think so. That's pretty much it.
Archie (Host) | 00:04:31 to 00:04:45
Yeah. There's a lot of other things that have been happening in Australia at the moment that I guess are quite disheartening and we could talk forever about it, but I don't think this is the space. So we'll move on, is what it is. We'll digress and we'll move on. We'll digress.
Archie (Host) | 00:04:45 to 00:04:57
Absolutely. So today what we're going to be talking about. So we got this brilliant voice note and email from James. Hi, friends. It's James from Canada.
Katie (Host) | 00:04:57 to 00:05:12
You might know me. I have a few songs on the Q 32 charts. Yeah. So I really love your podcast. It's like hanging out with friends and you're informative, you're fun, but also you're spreading hope around the world.
Katie (Host) | 00:05:12 to 00:05:28
And you are you're reaching all four corners of the globe. And like I said, the earth is flat. It's not, but you're reaching all four corners of the globe, bringing hope to people as well as smiles. And like I said, hanging out with friends. And that's important, especially right now.
Katie (Host) | 00:05:29 to 00:06:08
So that brings me to this, which was I suggested that you do a podcast on the September 21 Million March for Children here in Canada, which was Countrywide. Thousands and thousands of people protesting against the sexual education that we have as part of our curriculum, saying that we are grooming children, the teachers are grooming children, and that trans and queer and LGBTQ matters shouldn't be brought into school because grooming. But we're here and we exist.
Archie (Host) | 00:06:12 to 00:06:33
But. It is what it is. And unfortunately, Canada's taken a big step back and people are protesting, and it's bigger than just the curriculum. It's actually scary because it's creating a lot of hate and misinformation within the community. What happens to part of the community affects it as a whole.
Katie (Host) | 00:06:33 to 00:07:18
And unfortunately, all this negative attention towards drag and trans and the whole LGBTQ community recently, within the last year and couple of years, it's scary because things are going a bit backwards, mentality. Unfortunately, I have friends that I've lost because of it, and I just thought it would be a great topic. It's current, it's now. And it's never been more important for us to fight for our rights to live as human beings just like everybody else. So thank you for all that you do, my friends, because you do a lot, and I look forward to your podcasts all the time.
Katie (Host) | 00:07:18 to 00:07:51
So keep them up, keep doing good work. And kisses from Canada. Wow. James from Canada sent us his beautiful voice note and an email to talk about the riots or the protests that have specifically been happening in Canada secondary to sex education and trans rights and just basically like, rights within the LGBTQ community for kids. And it was quite a big, I guess, big in the way that it's quite emotional and emotive kind of topic because it leads to so many different things.
Archie (Host) | 00:07:51 to 00:08:16
And we have talked previously about sex education and how that affects growing up and how that affects your general societal outlook on certain issues. And we are very lucky here in Australia that we do have the certain education that we do have presently. Presently at this very point in time, whenever you're a nurse and you're like at time of report. That's what I'm basically at time of recording. Yeah, exactly.
Archie (Host) | 00:08:16 to 00:08:46
But it was really sad to hear about these kind of protests that were happening and what it will mean for Canada and then looking into it. It's quite similar that there has been these kind of protests in England as well. I saw these protests in London as well. But today is specifically what we're going to look at as the Canadian ones and kind of like talk about that a little bit more. And I think our next recording, I might actually bring it to the news segment and we'll see what other what's been kind of things happening around the world at the moment.
Archie (Host) | 00:08:46 to 00:09:03
Because even though when we do talk about news, a lot of the time it's kind of like little bits and bits. Little bits and like it's the spark notes of the news. Yeah, exactly. And I think there's a lot of people out there who do talk about this kind of stuff that make it their whole channel that they talk about the Randy Report. Yes.
Archie (Host) | 00:09:03 to 00:09:19
I'm saying yes because I don't know people's names, but I do know their faces. So it's like an LGBTQ podcast and they've got a blog and stuff and they talk about news that are just all about LGBT and how it affects the LGBTQ community. So if you want to know specific news, you can head over there. Yeah, very true. There's a lot of really good resources.
Archie (Host) | 00:09:19 to 00:09:40
So it's such an interesting topic to talk about. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to break the segment up into telling you about what's happened, which isn't going to be the longest part. But then I'm going to also we're going to have a discussion about certain things that I want to get your opinion on because I have very strong opinions, which yes, you do. You're Hungarian, I'm Hungarian. Like, what do they expect?
Archie (Host) | 00:09:40 to 00:09:50
I'm Hungarian, Irish, Scottish, and like, other things. What do you really? Very strong willed. Very strong willed or stubborn? Little bit of both, one would say.
Archie (Host) | 00:09:50 to 00:10:24
Good to say. So I'm going to tell you a bit about it and then we're going to have a discussion so we can go through it on this episode. We're going to be delving into the recent protests and counterproteces rocked Canada and sparked debates over gender identity and sex ed policies in schools. So this all started in September, and it started with the 1 Million March for Children movement, which aimed to protect our children from indoctrination and sexualization. But it quickly morphed into a nationwide discussion about how schools addressed issues on gender identity and the rights of their LGBTQIA plus students.
Archie (Host) | 00:10:24 to 00:10:55
So thousands took to the streets across the country from Toronto's Queen's Park. It became a focal point where they had both sides of the debate. In Vancouver, there was over like 1000 people turned out and expressed their opinions on their LGBTQ plus rights in schools. Even in Ottawa, thousands of people gathered in front of Parliament Hill with counterprotests, led by the new Democratic Party leader, Jagmet Singh. So there was all these protests that were happening across Canada basically at the same time, which was in September.
Archie (Host) | 00:10:55 to 00:11:13
Why have we not heard about this? It's a really good question, and I'm not yeah, because I thought it was quite astounding when James came to this with us. I'd never heard anything before James came to us, and I was like, what is James talking about? I wasn't really sure because I was just like, oh, this is really interesting. And when I started looking into it, it's very big.
Archie (Host) | 00:11:13 to 00:11:52
I mean, granted, when I say very big, it looked like the population of each protest was from the articles that I looked at, CBC, though, it said approximately a thousand people at each protest. But there did have to have quite a lot of police presence at these protests as well. And there was even one occasion surrounding this issue, not specifically to a protest, I believe, where someone tried to hold a knife to two people, and this guy specifically made sure that they were in that kind of club or they were associated with that kind of person, and then they came and pulled a knife on them. So it's something that's definitely, I think, that it's been triggered about what's happening with America. What do you think?
Archie (Host) | 00:11:52 to 00:12:03
But what's been happening in the world for LGBT discrimination to rise so fast? I don't know. There's a lot of factors to it. Yeah. What do you reckon?
Archie (Host) | 00:12:03 to 00:12:11
It's misinformation. People don't like change, and they're scared for people to actually have rights like everybody else. And it doesn't make any sense. It's frustrating. It is.
Archie (Host) | 00:12:11 to 00:12:35
It's like people don't like change. But to get to this point, there would have been change, because if you look back in all the historical documents, LGBT people had the same rights as everybody else. I don't get it. It's so true. And I saw this great quote the other day, and I think I said it on the last episode as well, is that with someone else having rights, you're not taking rights away from yourself to give it to somebody else.
Archie (Host) | 00:12:35 to 00:12:47
It's not like you've got a pie, and to allow somebody else to have a right, you have to take a piece of the pie and then give it to them. Therefore, you've got less pie. Fucking love pie. But that is not how it works. That's literally not how it works.
Archie (Host) | 00:12:48 to 00:12:57
It doesn't take something away from your rights by giving somebody else rights. It doesn't? No, not at all. It absolutely baffles me. It's like people are scared to lose something.
Archie (Host) | 00:12:57 to 00:13:09
It's like, you're not going to lose anything. You're just giving someone else the same opportunity that you already have. That's it. But this topic specifically, you're actually depriving children of knowledge. You're depriving them of education.
Archie (Host) | 00:13:10 to 00:13:35
And that's actually going to impair them in their life. By holding people back in this kind of way or holding children back in this kind of way, it leaves for a worse future. First of all, because they have added discrimination. And then second of all, they're not going to understand or be able to interact with people appropriately because you're saying that there are people out there that should be segregated. Yeah.
Archie (Host) | 00:13:35 to 00:14:00
Makes no sense. It makes absolutely zero sense. It's so weird now breaking into the core issues that are at play here because we've got a couple of different sides which are just like you always have different sides. Absolutely. So at the heart of these protests are policies emerging in New Brunswick and Saskatchewan that require young people to get parental consent before teachers can use their preferred names and pronouns.
Archie (Host) | 00:14:00 to 00:14:17
And then critiques argue that this is a violation of children's rights and could potentially lead to outing transgender youth to their parents against their will. Yeah. And it'll lead to increased and so I'm just going to mention something. So just a quick trigger warning. I am going to mention suicide amongst young and the mental health.
Archie (Host) | 00:14:17 to 00:14:51
So if you need to stop listening for a little bit, come back in a second. So basically this will lead to increased rates of suicide amongst LGBT people, which is already disproportionate to the rest of the general young adolescents and young kids population. You know what I mean? So this will lead to an increase in suicide rates because if they need to get permission from parents who are homophobic, who are transphobic, who already they have a terrible life at home. Sometimes school is the only place that they have that little safe bubble where they can be who they want to be.
Archie (Host) | 00:14:51 to 00:15:10
And if you're asking parental permission, like, what if they have relative if it goes against their religious beliefs and that kind of thing, we don't know what's happening behind closed doors. It'd be great to know what's happening behind everybody's those doors and help and support them. But by getting parental permission, you're putting this child into danger. Yeah. And sometimes school is that oasis that you can actually get away from places.
Archie (Host) | 00:15:10 to 00:15:34
It can get away from either a dangerous environment because there's a lot of domestic violence out there. We've talked previously about how kids who are part of the LGBTQIA plus community are exponentially higher rates of domestic violence or parental violence. So it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a safe space being there. No. And then outing them like it says outing them to their parents.
Archie (Host) | 00:15:34 to 00:15:59
I know my friends knew a lot more, like much sooner than my parents knew that I was bisexual at the time. It tends to be the people that you confide in first. It's a safe place to explore. And if you take away that opportunity for kids to explore, you're going to see increased rates of depression and kids being withdrawn and it's going to impact on their education and their well being. So it's ridiculous.
Archie (Host) | 00:15:59 to 00:16:22
I just don't get it. At schools, kids now don't need to get permission to be asked to be referred to as a certain name by teachers. Yeah, it's so funny. Do you know, a lot of my teachers had no idea what my first name was? Because when you do the roll call, because the school that we went to, it wasn't very big, class sizes and all that kind of stuff, they'd be like, oh, yeah.
Archie (Host) | 00:16:22 to 00:16:43
And because I got called by my last name through my whole of high like that's, from year eight onwards, I was always just my last mean. My first name is actually Catherine and I will never go by that dudes. Who else feels like their name doesn't actually suit their personality? Sure, there's a few people oh, especially listening to our podcast. Yeah.
Archie (Host) | 00:16:43 to 00:17:01
But yeah, it's one of those things that if they had actually adhered to every single person and what they specifically what about nicknames? It comes under that whole stupidity of being like, do you have to ask consent to be called a nickname? A nickname? No. To be called Archie instead of Archer?
Archie (Host) | 00:17:01 to 00:17:16
No. What the flip? Yeah, I really don't understand that. So it's worth noting that many parents and socially conservative groups are using this protection and protesting under the banner of parental rights. I'm using that in quotation marks for anyone who's not seeing on Instagram.
Archie (Host) | 00:17:16 to 00:17:45
However, some critics point out that this term might not accurately represent the concerns of the LGBTQIA plus or the parents that are LGBTQ. No, it's more about the other parents. It's denying that people exist. Is that not what it is? Like, if you're a parent who's queer and you're bringing your child to school, and then basically the curriculum or what other people are vying for is that don't talk about this.
Archie (Host) | 00:17:45 to 00:17:56
So what's going to happen next? Are they going to say, oh, I don't want my child to be partnered up with that child because their parents are LGBT? It's segregation. Yeah. What the hell is wrong with people?
Archie (Host) | 00:17:56 to 00:18:22
The debate also highlighted the importance of inclusive education policies in places like Ontario. Local schools, local school boards issued statements expressing their support for LGBTQ students, staff and families. They emphasised the need for safe and inclusive environment for all students, regardless of their gender identity or sexual orientation. So that was the school board coming out with that? No.
Archie (Host) | 00:18:22 to 00:18:44
That's amazing. So I know in schools in Perth that they go one step further. So they have an inclusive education policy that incorporates race, religion, beliefs, disabilities, sex, gender and sexuality. Yeah. And you do not get discriminated on any of that, which you shouldn't be discriminated on, and it shouldn't be something that comes into a factor with this kind of stuff.
Archie (Host) | 00:18:44 to 00:19:26
You need the education on it, but it's not something that you should be like, oh, nah, you can't be teaching here because you're gay. Right? So in the last episode, where in one of the news articles, I think we spoke about the fact that there's an MP over in Over East trying to make it that you cannot be fired or dismissed due to your sexuality. And that should not play a role at all when you're trying to get a job in the school education setting, even in private and Catholic and religious schools as well, because if you're the right person for the job, that's all that should matter. And really, we are so short on teachers, and I'm not sure if it's similarly like that around the world, but we are so short of teachers here in Australia and you need to have a good teacher for good education to happen.
Archie (Host) | 00:19:26 to 00:20:07
That's pretty much it. And without our students actually learning, and these days you see it a lot. And Archie, I know we've discussed this many a times, is that kids aren't reaching the milestones that they should be when it comes to just basic, like spelling, grammar, just easy things on the curriculum that they should have been learning back in primary school. But instead of it being like we don't hold kids back in school these days, we just keep on pushing them forward even though they haven't it's actually a disservice to them because if they haven't reached a milestone so if they haven't grasped the basic concepts that you are meant to grasp at a year three, four, five, level you are actually disadvantage of them by moving them forward because they're always going to be behind. Yeah, this is what my beliefs anyway.
Archie (Host) | 00:20:07 to 00:20:31
Not everybody's going to believe that. But if you were to keep your child back for one year, you're going to let them be able to understand and grasp those simple concepts that they weren't able to grasp the year before. But if you don't, they then have those concepts that they don't grasp. They go on to the next year and then they don't get the next one because you needed the stuff from the previous year to be able to keep growing and improving. So I just don't know why we don't keep kids back.
Katie (Host) | 00:20:31 to 00:20:44
It's the foundations. See, primary school is your foundations of learning, and if you don't have your foundations of learning, you can't actually do anything. No, you can't. It's like asking someone to run before they can walk. Yeah, totally.
Katie (Host) | 00:20:44 to 00:20:46
Asking someone to rap before they can talk.
Katie (Host) | 00:20:51 to 00:21:06
But it's similarly in the way that if you can't read I remember when we were younger, we used to have that 1800 reading service. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. And it never occurred to me. Do you know what the ad's playing in my head at the moment? Because my granddad tried it.
Katie (Host) | 00:21:06 to 00:21:13
Six triple five. Oh, six. Yeah. So I think my granddad was looking into it. And I think that's really important, having the accessibility.
Katie (Host) | 00:21:13 to 00:21:30
And granted, we don't really watch Free to air TV, so I'm not really sure if that ad is still out there, but it was a reading and writing service that allowed people to learn. One three double oh six, triple five oh six. I wonder if that was that still their number. Yeah, that's what I was seeing you before. Oh, yeah.
Katie (Host) | 00:21:30 to 00:21:40
I totally just disengaged with you completely because I was thinking about other things. My bad. Yeah, I can see your brain going off on yeah, that's exactly what happened. Anyway, I digress. Yeah.
Katie (Host) | 00:21:40 to 00:21:58
Back onto the actual topic. We didn't so much we do, don't we? So the situation was complicated by the fact that different provinces had varying approaches to sexual orientation and gender identity in the curricula. Just like in Australia, every state and territory has a different curriculum. Yeah, it's very true.
Katie (Host) | 00:21:58 to 00:22:27
So, for instance, British Columbia doesn't have a specific sexual orientation and gender identity curriculum, but they emphasise human rights, diversity and anti discrimination education, which is good. But I think in these kind of circumstances, like we've talked to before in our sex education episode, is that you need these things specifically in a curriculum. So they get discussed. Yeah. Because if you don't put them in, they don't discuss or they get discussed on the playground where the kids don't get the true information.
Katie (Host) | 00:22:27 to 00:22:49
Yeah. They need the appropriate information. And it needs to be something that we talk about in each facet, because if we're talking about let's not discriminate against anybody, which is definitely something that we shouldn't be doing. We shouldn't have a bias due to race, religion, sex education, sexual identity, gender identity, anything like that. We shouldn't be discriminating for any of those reasons.
Katie (Host) | 00:22:49 to 00:23:11
But you have to literally educate people on each of those reasons for people to understand them. Because if you don't talk about them again, it sits the issue of, like, if you don't talk about it, you don't know about it. Yeah. So in response to this process, we've seen several political leaders take a stand, which is great. So specifically, the prime minister, Justin Trudeau.
Katie (Host) | 00:23:11 to 00:23:16
Oh, I love Justin Trudeau. I know. Well, I don't know. I love him. I just love the videos about him.
Katie (Host) | 00:23:16 to 00:23:32
I don't know. I don't actually know too much about him. I'm going to withhold my ideas because I feel like, as a generalising statement, I like what he has to stand for. But also, I've not done a deep dive on him. I don't know anything about his policies or what he's doing for the like he's gay, isn't he?
Katie (Host) | 00:23:32 to 00:23:39
No, he's got a wife. Oh, I'm thinking about the wrong person. Ignore me. I wish he was gay because there's a gay prime minister somewhere. I thought it was him.
Katie (Host) | 00:23:39 to 00:24:03
Ignore me. I don't know much about him. So Prime Minister Justin Trudeau expressed his firm condemnation of hate discrimination targeted at the LGBTQ community. He emphasised the government's commitment to supporting the LGBTQIA individuals, which I think is brilliant. I think in the same way that we had Joe Biden do it for America and be like, I support trans rights.
Katie (Host) | 00:24:03 to 00:24:22
This is exactly what Justin Trudeau is doing. I really enjoy that. I think it's such an important thing for political leaders, especially those, to stand up and be like, I support the queer community. I support LGBTQIA people, individuals, children, for growing up in a safe environment. I think that's bloody brilliant.
Katie (Host) | 00:24:22 to 00:24:43
And it's what we have always needed, really. So Canadians from coast to coast are engaging in these kind of conversations. However, it's important to remember that it isn't just about policies. It's about the well being and acceptance of LGBTQIA plus youth in our communities. As we navigate these discussions, let's just remember the words of activist Celeste Chinan.
Katie (Host) | 00:24:43 to 00:25:00
Trans people, they exist in society and they deserve inclusion just like everyone else. Yeah, agreed. So I got some really cool quotes from all these discussions. So I know that we've talked a lot about just education in general. Long pause.
Speaker A () | 00:25:00 to 00:25:24
Wasn't that about the education in general? And really, there's a lot of differences. There's a lot of topics that interacted and are involved in this because it's not just the education that's being delivered, it's also the discrimination that is happening as well. So, from the Toronto District School Board, we do not tell children who they should be, but we welcome them as they are. Yeah.
Speaker A () | 00:25:24 to 00:25:58
Which I thought was such a good hold, inclusively understanding that and I think that's a really good statement to come out from a school board, just as a blanket statement, being like, we support our children, we support them being who they need to be. I thought that was absolutely brilliant. And they're emphasising their support for every student's rights to express their gender identity and sexual orientation. Yeah, I love that. So, Mayor Sutcliffe so the Ottawa mayor, Mark Sutcliffe, expressed concerns that the protests may negatively impact their LGBTQ youth who are seeking acceptance and support.
Speaker A () | 00:25:59 to 00:26:27
He emphasises the importance of providing a safe and inclusive environment for all school people or all young people. So he was saying that protests may cause harm to youth, which are looking for support and acceptance. And I think that's what it comes down to as well. Like, when you have these kind of discussions or these kind of protests about things that are so personal, it's also things that don't actually impact you at all. It really does not impact you whether a child is LGBTQIA plus or not.
Speaker A () | 00:26:27 to 00:27:05
So it really makes no sense. And in a world where you're already trying to navigate because you've got hormones and you're trying to navigate the school society and learning new things and education, and you're seeing the rest of society actually protesting against you, that's a lot for a young person to take it. Is, isn't it? And it's going to leave you feeling like you don't belong even more in a world that you're struggling with acceptance so much anyway, that having such an outward such a big gesture from the community or from people at your school being like, we don't accept you. Yeah.
Speaker A () | 00:27:05 to 00:27:23
And kids already have such a tough time belonging. And then you're also adding this element because one of the things the kids just want to belong and it's one of the things that they struggle with at schools, trying to find the group that makes them feel whole. And then you're adding all these other elements. You're just going to alienate them and make them feel even more alone. Yeah.
Speaker A () | 00:27:23 to 00:27:37
You are, aren't you? Or less than like you're not a full citizen. You're not a full person. I know we spoke about before, but talking about when there was the same sex marriage debate yeah. And how little that made me feel.
Speaker A () | 00:27:37 to 00:28:01
But we were adults at the time. Imagine being a kid and having everybody protest your rights. And people wonder why so many people suffer from internalised homophobia when we've got these kind of things happening. It's absolutely baffling how you couldn't suffer from internalised homophobia when there's so many negative connotations with just being queer. When there's so many negative connotations.
Speaker A () | 00:28:01 to 00:28:17
Actually, I'm going to branch that out to being like anyone who's part of the LGBTQIA plus community. Yes. Anybody who isn't seen as being part of what society did previously deem as normal. When there is no such thing as normality. No.
Speaker A () | 00:28:17 to 00:28:25
It's absolutely baffling. If you're happy, I'm going to run through a couple of questions with you, if that's okay. Sure. Lovely. We'll see how they go.
Speaker A () | 00:28:25 to 00:28:49
We might have already addressed them, probably. So how do you feel about the term parental rights? And I'm just going to answer that first before you have a chat about it, because my feelings about parental rights is that half of me actually doesn't want to mention the company again. Like the people who are anti protesters again or the people who are protesting against the queer community just because I don't want to actually bring they're not important. Yeah, they're not important.
Speaker A () | 00:28:50 to 00:29:28
They're just stupid individuals. But when they use this term parental rights, as in like they have governance over their children and what their education should be and that their ideologies about how their children should be brought up are more important than what the curriculum. But the problem there is parents bring in their own prejudice. So they're already limiting on what their child can learn and how their child can grow and that kind of thing. So if it's a parental right, you are already bringing your internalised homophobia or everything else, all that, to your child.
Speaker A () | 00:29:28 to 00:30:08
Let your child work out things on their own. Guide them, but let them be their own human. And like you were mentioning there, it's also based on your own biases, your biases and your idea of what parental rights are are going to be totally different to what the next person's parental rights are. Say you've got some person who has grown up in a highly religious family that has a very strong family unit to somebody who has maybe parents who either separated, divorced, separated. You might have a single parent household, you might actually be growing up with family members rather than parents or by your actual siblings.
Speaker A () | 00:30:08 to 00:30:44
You might be everybody's idea of parental rights are different. Absolutely. And like it mentioned, there is like, if you have a queer couple that are bringing their child to school, they've got a right over their child learning as well. And to be honest, as a parent, and this is probably going to be like a hot take, I don't know, but it's how I feel about it is, like, you're actually not the one who should be making the decision about their education. The government, and this is why it sounds I see your eye twitch at that point.
Speaker A () | 00:30:44 to 00:31:32
But as a governing body, the government has a whole ministry that based on education and data and evidence based research on what children should be learning and what's actually going to be best for our society and have the least amount of discrimination for everybody. And that's the government's job to do it. As a parent, as a singular parent, you don't have the time nor the resources to be looking at all of this. You're not an expert in the field, you just know what you know. And if you're looking at things and we're saying, like, the government and stuff, and we've spoke about before, the Australian curriculum is very outdated and it does need a change, but at the end of the day, the curriculum constantly changes.
Speaker A () | 00:31:32 to 00:31:49
Yes. If you're a teacher, you know the curriculum constantly changes. But the system has been the same for over 100 years, the school system, it was the same that when we went to school. It hasn't changed, it's just what's being taught has changed a bit. And I feel like that if you're not an expert in the field, you don't know what your child needs to learn.
Speaker A () | 00:31:50 to 00:32:13
You can educate them however you like at home, but why are you disadvantaging your child by only showing them one part of the world or one part of your world? I totally agree with that, I really do. Because you can only teach what you know and we are actually not professors in what we know. No. Yeah, it's absolutely baffling.
Speaker A () | 00:32:13 to 00:32:33
And I think that's what also the Pandemic taught a lot of parents out there. Is that how hard teachers actually work? Yeah. How hard it is. It's not just the topics that you're teaching about, it's also behavioural management, it's also management of a human being and making sure that their safety and their well being is also optimised.
Speaker A () | 00:32:33 to 00:32:48
And I don't mean that at home. But I mean, that in the way of, like, you're no longer just a teacher. You're a teacher. You have to listen to their problems. We're not psychologists, but basically the way people say it's, like, you're a teacher, you're a parent, you're a psychologist, you're therapist, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A () | 00:32:48 to 00:33:11
So you're no longer just a teacher because you have to think about, okay, how am I going to teach them in the classroom? You need to think about their well being and their mental health, and then you need to think about how to support them and how to make them in other ways. You're no longer just a teacher. There's so many other aspects of teaching that you now take on a lot of responsibilities. I think back in the day, there you were a teacher, you stayed in front of the classroom, and you taught, that's it.
Speaker A () | 00:33:11 to 00:33:28
That's absolutely it. And it wasn't your responsibility to cater for the psychological needs no. Or the physical needs of your students, or, like, when a student has an intellectual disability. Back in the day, teachers didn't really focus on that as much as we do now. You know what I mean?
Speaker A () | 00:33:28 to 00:34:05
And you have to be accessible as a teacher. You have to be accessible in the ways of, like, you have to make sure that what you're teaching is both appropriate and engaging, but then also caters for people who, like you just mentioned, had disabilities. So making sure that if you've got somebody who's hearing impaired or if you've got somebody who is intellectually impaired or might have some visual impairments, that those kind of educational resources can branch out. But it's not only that. You also need to think about yes, you need to help support those who need help, but also you need to push those who are on the other end who are academically gifted.
Speaker A () | 00:34:05 to 00:34:40
And it's about catering to everybody's needs within a classroom and every class, you will have people who need a lot of support to get them through with the basic skills and the basic concepts, and then you have people who have nailed it, and you also have to keep everybody engaged and everybody supported at the same time. Yeah. So I think when it comes into parental rights, I think that, yeah, it's great to have ideologies and have things that you want your children to learn, but really, you're not the people to be making these decisions about it. No. And if you want your kids to just have one look outlook, send them to specific schools.
Speaker A () | 00:34:40 to 00:34:59
Don't send them to independent public schools or public schools in general. If you want them to have those kind of outlooks, then send them to those schools. Gosh, but if that's what they want, then yeah. So in your opinion yes. What could be some potential solutions to bridge the gap between the various perspectives on this issue?
Speaker A () | 00:35:00 to 00:35:14
Education. Yeah. Education of parents. But the thing is you can say, hey, we're going to have these information nights, but parents don't always turn up. So it's like you can give the it's like that old saying.
Speaker A () | 00:35:14 to 00:35:22
What is it? You can lead a horse lead a horse water, but you can't make them drink it. Yeah, that's exactly that. You can lead a horse of water, but you can't make them drink. So you can do this.
Speaker A () | 00:35:22 to 00:35:43
But the end of the day, the parents will still make their own decision. Yeah. So education is probably, like you were saying, a huge one. I think it being normalised, more like we're getting to a society where, I mean, being queer is out there a lot more than it has been previously. But I still think we need more representation.