14. Queer Representation and the 2023 Womens World Cup

Welcome to Let's Be Perfectly Queer, a podcast that creates space to talk about all things queer. In this episode, hosts Archie and Katie dive into the topic of queer representation in the Fifa Women's World Cup 2023. They discuss the importance of LGBTQIA+ representation in sports, the impact it has on inclusivity, and the challenges faced by queer athletes.

Throughout the episode, Archie and Katie touch on various subjects, including the recent queer Barn Dance they attended, the introduction of a bill in Australia to protect LGBTQIA+ individuals from discrimination, and the controversial use of transgender images in a Channel Seven program. They also highlight positive moments of LGBTQ+ visibility in the Women's World Cup, such as Megan Rapinoe's iconic kiss with her girlfriend and the inclusion of openly queer coaches.

The hosts emphasize the significance of representation for women and queer people in sports, providing role models and challenging stereotypes. They discuss the influence of increased visibility on young athletes struggling with their identities and the important work being done by LGBTQ+ sports organizations.

Join Archie and Katie as they reflect on the power of representation in sports and invite listeners to continue the conversation. Stay tuned for upcoming episodes that explore being queer and trans in the world of sports.

Topics Discussed:

- Queer representation in the Women's World Cup 2023

- LGBTQIA+ visibility in sports

- LGBTQ+ discrimination and laws in different countries

- Controversial use of transgender images in media

- Positive moments of LGBTQ+ visibility in sports

- Challenges faced by queer athletes

- Importance of LGBTQ+ representation for women in sports

- Role of LGBTQ+ sports organizations

- Inclusivity and acceptance in sports

List of resources we found helpful:

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230818-fifa-2023-womens-world-cup-good-queer-joy-on-and-off-the-pitch
https://www.outsports.com/2023/7/11/23787885/world-cup-women-gay-lesbian-lgbtq-usa-australia-brazil
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/08/16/womens-world-cup-gay-players-lgbt/
https://www.autostraddle.com/2023-world-cup-gay-players/
https://apnews.com/article/womens-world-cup-lgbtq-e6c9d1e954dc25d252b0664e35f6b407
https://www.openlynews.com/i/?id=0becd1db-a76a-476f-bc78-0357a9b3e541
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/sam-kerr-is-the-hero-i-needed-growing-up-as-a-queer-football-fanatic-in-australia/ydfunlsqs
https://gaycitynews.com/strong-lgbtq-representation-fifa-womens-world-cup/

Sound from Zapsplat.com

Transcript

Podcast: Let's Be Perfectly Queer Podcast

Episode Title: Queer Representation And The 2023 Womens World Cup

Host(s): Archie, Katie

Guest(s): 

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Archie (Host) | 00:00:04 to 00:00:14
We're recording. Welcome to let's Be Perfectly Queer, a. Queer podcast creating space to talk about all things queer. My name is Archie. And I'm Katie.

Katie (Host) | 00:00:14 to 00:00:35
And we are your hosts. Questions of how you identify, seeking answers to clarify whether you're queen or someone in between. Let's be perfectly queer. All right, so on today's episode, we are going to talk about queer representation in the Women's World Cup 2023. Very relevant topic.

Archie (Host) | 00:00:35 to 00:00:45
Yeah, I mean, it has been very relevant and it's still a topic that we're talking about at the moment. Yeah, that's very, very true. But before we get into that, I've got some news. Yeah. Do you have any news?

Katie (Host) | 00:00:45 to 00:00:52
I don't know why asking? You never have any news. I have news of like, what's been happening with us. That's true. What's been happening with us.

Archie (Host) | 00:00:52 to 00:01:06
We have some good news and we have some bad news. Yes. Basically our good news, because it's always nice to start on a high, is that we went and attended a queer Barn Dance. Oh, we did. It was Perth Barn Dance.

Katie (Host) | 00:01:06 to 00:01:15
It was awesome. And it was run by the I think it's Vic Park Pride. I think it was Proud WA and Vic Park Pride. I'm pretty sure. Okay.

Archie (Host) | 00:01:15 to 00:01:31
I think there was a lot of representation and there were a lot of really good supporting companies that were there. And yeah, it was so much fun. And I have to implore and granted, I was going to say I have to implore people to buy tickets, but they sold out in 2 seconds. It was like two minutes. It was amazing.

Katie (Host) | 00:01:31 to 00:01:47
And if you get the chance to go next year, perth Barn Dance was just so much fun. Like, we had the best time. We went with Amy and Shay, who wrote our podcast, and so you guys got to see their faces, our music, who wrote our podcast jingle. And so you guys got to see their faces. It was so much fun.

Katie (Host) | 00:01:47 to 00:02:10
I did not know I would have that much fun doing a barn dance. And if you want to cheque it out on our story well, still on our story either way, on our Instagram, you'll see some of the videos of us and that was pre me falling over and hurting my knee, which is very entertaining. But no, that was so much fun. A lot of line dancing, some drag shows, great cocktails as well. Yeah, it was very good.

Archie (Host) | 00:02:10 to 00:02:31
Good music. It was just a generally great vibe, which was really awesome. And I guess the other thing I want to note too, is I really appreciate everyone's patience for us having a delayed episode this week. It's been a bit of a difficult one. We've had our older dog, Dudley, pass away, and it's traumatic.

Archie (Host) | 00:02:31 to 00:02:36
It was a traumatic situation and we loved him so much.

Archie (Host) | 00:02:39 to 00:02:57
On this episode, we actually do have little Odie sitting with us because now that she's not a single child because we still have a cat, but the. Cat doesn't need to be with us constantly. No, exactly. So, in lovely memory of Dudley, we will move on to other news. Yeah, it's also been your birthday, so we had that.

Katie (Host) | 00:02:59 to 00:03:17
There's been a lot going on. There has been, yeah. But on the other end, we are back and we are recording again for our lovely people. And thank you for just appreciating us. We've had some beautiful messages because we did put a post out saying, look, there was going to be a delay and there was someone who was just like, oh, it'll be worthwhile.

Archie (Host) | 00:03:17 to 00:03:49
And I was like, oh, you gorgeous little individual, thank you very much. We better make this a very good episode. We will, we promise. All right, so, in the news so, in Australia, independent MP Alex Greenwich has introduced a bill in New South Wales Parliament to ensure all LGBTQIA plus people live free from discrimination and harm. The bill includes banning conversion practises, allowing transgender and nonbinary people to update their gender without the need for surgery, removing legal carve outs that allow queer teachers and students in private schools to be fired or expelled.

Archie (Host) | 00:03:49 to 00:04:12
That's very important. I really like that it allows people to change their pronouns without any specific kind of evidence. I find it really frustrating when you have to be like, I'm trans. It's like, you have to have all the receipts and being like, yeah, these are the reasons why I'm trans. And people have to make a judgement call on that.

Archie (Host) | 00:04:12 to 00:04:34
And I've never really agreed on that. Yeah. So in WA, I know that they're in the process of trying to change the system, but at the moment you have to go to a gender board or gender recognition board. I can't remember exactly what it's called. But you have to go to a board, and in there you have to put things like you must have either been on hormones or had surgery to be the gender that you feel.

Katie (Host) | 00:04:34 to 00:05:03
And that represents you the best. And it's a long process and it's exhausting and it's kind of like you have to prove to a random panel of people that you are who you are and it's not the greatest process. I don't really understand why there is so much of a process behind it. I don't quite get it and I'm not sure, and it's probably something we'll look into in the future, but I don't really understand because it feels like gatekeeping to me. It feels like they're gatekeeping.

Archie (Host) | 00:05:03 to 00:05:12
You have to be a man because this is how you are. Or you have to be a female because this is how you are. I don't really understand that concept. I don't get it. It doesn't make sense to me.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:12 to 00:05:27
Yeah. So it's really outdated and it needs to change. Definitely. Also, Barbie, which features a transgender actress, has officially surpassed Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part two to become the highest grossing Warner Brothers film of all time. I think it's bloody brilliant.

Katie (Host) | 00:05:27 to 00:05:40
Yeah, that was really cool. Yeah. I like that film for so many different reasons and it just yeah, it's bloody brilliant. I'm glad they have Trojans. It's not the best film ever, but it is a good lighthearted film.

Archie (Host) | 00:05:40 to 00:05:59
It's true. Yeah. The film has come under fire from the Algerian Ministry of Culture and the Arts, which says it promotes homosexuality and other Western deviances. Algeria is also among several nations moving to ban the movie. Debed on banned the Warner Brothers film last week, saying it promotes homosexuality and sexual transformation.

Katie (Host) | 00:06:00 to 00:06:24
Kuwait banned it, saying it promoted ideas and beliefs that are alien to the Qatar society and public order. I don't know about you, but I didn't find the film overtly discuss sexuality or LGBTQIA plus ideas or ideologies or references at all. So I don't know where this is coming from. It literally didn't discuss sex once. It talked about like, not having genitals, but it never actually discussed, oh, we're having sex, or we're having homosexual sex.

Archie (Host) | 00:06:24 to 00:06:34
And there was nothing. There was nothing. I didn't find anything that was overtly queer at all. So I'm very confused about how they would say that. Why they would say it makes no sense.

Archie (Host) | 00:06:34 to 00:06:50
To me, it's screaming that feeling when men get attacked for no reason, just because somebody is doing just something that they don't feel comfortable with. That's what it's screaming to me, that vibe. I'm like, dude, settle down. I have no idea. For me, I don't know.

Katie (Host) | 00:06:51 to 00:07:07
That could be interesting. If you guys found any references that we missed, please let us know in the comments. I have no idea. That's really interesting. So in Malaysia, people who own or sell rainbow coloured watches made by Swatch, a Swiss watchmaker could be punished with three years in prison or a fine of $6,650.

Katie (Host) | 00:07:07 to 00:07:37
This is because the country has strict laws against homosexuality and the LGBTQ symbols are seen as harmful to morals. Just three months ago, Malaysian authorities raided Swatch stores across the country, including the capital city, Kuala Lumpur, to confiscate watches with what they called LGBT elements. Anyone involved in printing, importing, producing or having these items can now be sentenced to up to three years in jail. Malaysia has laws against homosexuality and LGBTQ individuals face discrimination in that country. What the hell is that about?

Katie (Host) | 00:07:37 to 00:07:53
Well, if you were listening to our last episode, we did say it was in the top the worst ten countries absolutely. To travel to if you are queer. But it's a watch band. I know. I am so amazed by that, that somebody can get so caught up in it's.

Archie (Host) | 00:07:53 to 00:08:00
A watch band. That makes no sense. What do you think this is? Do people think that being gay is a cult? What is that?

Katie (Host) | 00:08:00 to 00:08:16
But also, the rainbow is in society. So what if someone just really likes the rainbow? What if a kid is wearing a rainbow bracelet, are you going to get them in trouble and put them into jail? Oh, my gosh. Imagine, literally imagine if they saw a rainbow and they're just like, It's a gay hologram.

Archie (Host) | 00:08:16 to 00:08:26
Quickly get on top of it. Like, what the hell is this going? It makes no sense. But what if, as a kid is travelling through Malaysia with their family and have a rainbow on their shirt? Where does it stop?

Katie (Host) | 00:08:26 to 00:08:35
So just remind me when we go through Malaysia not to wear my rainbow wristband or anything. That's rainbow gay propaganda. Who would have thought? Oh, good grief. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:08:35 to 00:09:02
So, Iraq has prohibited the use of the term homosexuality in favour of the phrase sexual deviance in its media. Additionally, the word gender is also banned. This ban extends to phone and internet companies, which are not allowed to use these terms in their apps. Iraq has used morality clauses in its penal code to target LGBTQ plus community, and this ban is part of these restrictions. The ban applies to all media and social media companies operating in the country, as announced by the Iraqi Communications and Media Commission.

Archie (Host) | 00:09:02 to 00:09:25
Do you know what I find really funny is that in a way that's actually quite progressive, banning gender. They don't realise that. They don't realise that at all. But it's interesting, right? I'm not sure if since ABC Channel Seven and Google and all that, and with the rise of interest in LGBT topics, is there more happening or are they just focusing on it more?

Archie (Host) | 00:09:25 to 00:09:35
I don't know. Probably focusing on more, let's be honest, the media. It just seems a bit weird that all of this is happening at once. It's just a lot. Are you getting that as well?

Archie (Host) | 00:09:35 to 00:10:07
Yeah, I feel like the previous news we were talking about was very much civil rights and we were looking at trans rights and all that kind of stuff, whereas all of this is like, let's ban watches, let's ban people from saying the word gender. I don't understand this. Yeah, so I'm not sure if it's what's happening, but it just seems that the news in regards to queer representation and LGBTQIA plus matters is quite negative at the moment, besides what's happening in New South Wales with the MP. Sorry, she started licking the thing. I saw that.

Archie (Host) | 00:10:07 to 00:10:16
Okay, good. Also, did you see what happened on Channel Seven? No. You didn't see what's happened on Channel Seven? I don't watch preter TV.

Katie (Host) | 00:10:16 to 00:10:26
No, I don't watch it either, but it's all over my TikTok. But, yeah, what do you know? So, Channel Seven used images of transgender people without consent. I did see this air. Oh, I did.

Archie (Host) | 00:10:26 to 00:10:35
And I was like, that is so wrong. We should probably watch this one before it gets taken down, so then we can actually have an episode where we talk about it. Oh, it's probably already taken down. No, it's not. There's a petition, but it's not taken down yet.

Katie (Host) | 00:10:35 to 00:11:10
So Channel Seven investigative programme spotlight titled Detransitioning the preview made it look like several well known transgender influencers regretted transitioning. In the trailer, Channel Seven claimed that thousands of kids are regretting it. The trailer placed photos of trans people at both pre and post transition, side by side to support its claims, for which no data or studies were cited. But they didn't even ask the people if they could use their data, they didn't ask them if they could use their images. And I don't think any of the people that they actually used regretted being trans.

Archie (Host) | 00:11:10 to 00:11:25
And wasn't there just one person who actually did not I wouldn't exactly say regret transitioning because they didn't. But now it sounds like they're actually not in a very safe mental space. From what I was not sure. I haven't looked into that. But one of them is from Perth.

Archie (Host) | 00:11:25 to 00:11:51
Yeah, they are. But they are great trans activists and in the way that because I saw her videos after that and I think it's the same person we were talking about and she did not a retaliation, but like answering video where it was just like, oh no, I've just had my boobs done. I'm definitely not Detransitioning. I'm like, yeah, you go yeah, I. Think they go by St South or south, something like for their music page.

Katie (Host) | 00:11:51 to 00:12:22
But their name is Olivia Galbranich. Maybe it's the same person. I'm not good with names, but yeah, when you look at media media is all about where you get your references from, where you get information from. Well, yeah, well, in actual journalism, which makes me think that what is Channel Seven doing? That's what a lot of people are questioning, because it's like, why are we all of a sudden following in America's footsteps and deciding that we are jumping on this antitrans bandwagon and in there saying things like, kids from the age of twelve are being told to transition.

Katie (Host) | 00:12:22 to 00:12:46
These guys obviously didn't do their research because it's ridiculously hard for any transgender individual to transition before 16 or even 18. They need so many hoops and they need lots of parental permission and they need a lot of therapy. There's so many hoops that they have to jump through. So why would they say that? It seems like it's statements that they've read online with no substance.

Archie (Host) | 00:12:46 to 00:13:21
It's a very formal process of how you actually go and transition and the steps along the way. And this doesn't necessarily include having any surgeries or having any hormones, but there is a large plan to do with when it comes to transitioning. And it's like Channel Seven hasn't actually put any effort whatsoever into looking into it, educating themselves, or even researching the topic, which is actually kind of sad, because if you want to any journalist knows that you need to have evidence behind it, or else it's just like, in essence. I mean, I don't want to be. Saying you're just lying.

Archie (Host) | 00:13:21 to 00:13:31
Anything from Donald Trump. But it's fake news. It is fake news. The thing is as well. So I find it quite interesting because it's done exact opposite of what Channel Seven wanted to do.

Katie (Host) | 00:13:31 to 00:13:43
People are writing petitions, people are getting really angry at Channel Seven and wanting them to apologise. They did a very weak apology, in my opinion. They didn't really apologise. They said, oh, we apologise. We've taken the image down of that one person.

Katie (Host) | 00:13:43 to 00:14:04
And then other people have come forward and said, oh, it was also me, and it was also me. So it's just they have not done their job correctly, in my opinion. Well, I feel like if they could have actually done just the slightest bit of research, they would have realised that that's actually not a topic. No, there's nothing to discuss about that. Some people do detransition, but that's not anything that the media should be talking about.

Archie (Host) | 00:14:04 to 00:14:20
It's a very personal story where some people do tend maybe I need to. Do a smaller talk and if everybody wants to hear about it, about the process of how long it took me to just start, I don't think that's. Going to be a small talk. I think that's going to be a long talk, because we could see all. The different process yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:14:20 to 00:14:31
Of what happens, the different doctors that I saw and the way that I got there. Anyway, let's finish on some happy news. Talking about stay on the transgender. Do you remember Teddy Geiger? Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:14:31 to 00:14:43
Did you know they don't even yeah, so Teddy Geiger. Yeah. So they transitioned and now they are living their best life. Okay. I'm guessing their pronouns are they them, because that's how you're referring to them there.

Katie (Host) | 00:14:43 to 00:14:49
I don't know. I should have gone into that one. I was just like, oh, Teddy. It came up on my TikTok. And I was like, that's exciting.

Archie (Host) | 00:14:49 to 00:14:56
And they're still identifying as Teddy from. What I could see. Yeah. Could have kind of gone a little bit quiet, but still exciting. Great.

Archie (Host) | 00:14:56 to 00:15:07
I had a huge crush on them. Yeah. I'm Pansexual, still will have a huge crush on them. Love it. All right, so to our actual topic.

Katie (Host) | 00:15:07 to 00:15:27
So if you're like me, the Women's World Cup took over my entire life, as you know, for four weeks. We went and watched some games live, and then I went down to the FIFA Hub with my friends and watched some of the finals there as well. I'm just going to stop you there. And I feel like the way that you're describing it does not incorporate how much it was part of our lives. It was, guys, listen to this.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:27 to 00:15:35
He says, we watched some games. How many games did you watch live? I watched three. Yeah. So we watched two together.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:35 to 00:15:52
Archie watched one without me. Yes. I was working. Unfortunately, it wasn't a choice, but every other single game, archie made sure that he went down into the city at the FIFA Hub because they actually had created this spot where they had a large, big screen and they showed some entertainment and everyone could gather there. There was some food trucks and stuff.

Archie (Host) | 00:15:52 to 00:16:05
Every single game after that, Archie was. Down there watching for every single Matilda's game. I went with some friends. It was so much fun. And not just friends, he literally hooped people together, people who didn't previously watch soccer.

Archie (Host) | 00:16:05 to 00:16:18
He was like, Watch this. And then everyone came down. Not everyone came down, so it was good. So we gathered, and even some days straight after work, I'd message my friend, who was my work colleague, and we'd like, all right, we're going. Meet you there.

Katie (Host) | 00:16:18 to 00:16:31
Meet you at the library at 330 or whatever, at 430, literally. And then we'd plan our whole day. And I had some withdrawal symptoms a few days later, I literally went out and bought the shirt. Yeah. Do you know what?

Archie (Host) | 00:16:31 to 00:16:45
I feel like it's the same feeling that some women get after they have their wedding and then they're just like, oh, I think that was the feeling you had after the World Cup. I talked about it every single day. And then when it ended, I was just like, what was next? Nothing. I was devastated.

Katie (Host) | 00:16:46 to 00:17:12
But before we dive in, I just want to ask you a question. Why do you think LGBTQIA plus representation is important in sports? How it's important everywhere? See, this is the thing, is that it's important to have queer representation everywhere, and there is a lot of queer people in sports, and therefore we should be proud of that. In sports, people are going to say, oh, it shouldn't be a factor, sexuality shouldn't be a factor in this, but you still need to have representation.

Archie (Host) | 00:17:12 to 00:17:57
It to be okay. Because we've seen in football, there has been so much misogyny and there has been also so much homophobia in football that we need to have that representation to show that it doesn't matter, that in history it's always been that male locker room where they're quite misogynistic and they talk about women and quite degrading. Whereas not everyone is straight, not everyone is heterosexual. You got to understand that there are people out there who identify by many different things, and we have to allow people to just be people and not create spaces where it's going to be this I guess this disgusting element of hypermasculinity. I can't remember the word right now.

Katie (Host) | 00:17:57 to 00:18:15
You don't know what's happening in everybody's lives. So how do you know if someone playing on the team has two mums, two dads, nonbinary relatives? You don't. So by you outwardly denying or being homophobic, you're giving these players less option to belong. Does that make sense?

Archie (Host) | 00:18:15 to 00:18:43
Yeah, it's depriving them of that. And there has been homophobic slurs previously yelled at players in the past. And this is why representation is so important. It's to allow players to actually play the game, because that's what we want. We want it not to be about anything about the game, to just appreciate how people are as individuals, that being separate from what race they are, what culture they are, what sexuality they have, what gender they identify as.

Archie (Host) | 00:18:43 to 00:19:15
We just want to appreciate the players, but therefore, we need to have that representation in the sport and yeah. And so also that queer players know that they can be safe to play those sports yeah. And to travel as well. And you can listen to our Past last podcast episode on that. But it's that other thing as well, is that these players and we did note that previously, that there are some countries that they play in that it's not safe, that it's actually illegal to be gay.

Archie (Host) | 00:19:15 to 00:19:31
And it's difficult because you need to have representation in countries to allow that to spread throughout the world. So it's more accepted, whereas you can see, even just in our news, that there are a lot of countries that won't even accept a bloody wristband. Right. Which is crazy. Let's have a quick glimpse into the past.

Katie (Host) | 00:19:31 to 00:19:43
So, to get started, let's rewind only to recent to 2019 FIFA Women's World Cup. Oh, my gosh. Can we have that music? Sure we can. Thank you.

Katie (Host) | 00:19:43 to 00:19:59
After the US secured their victory against the Netherlands, the world witnessed a historic moment. Do you know what that was? No. So Megan Rapino, a US player, kissed her longtime girlfriend, WNBA star Sue Bird. On the sidelines is a moment that resonated globally and elevated LGBTQ plus visibility in sports.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:00 to 00:20:19
However, it's worth noting, due to the time difference I don't know about you, but I didn't even know about it for someone in Australia, I missed this iconic moment, so I didn't even hear about it. Did you? No, but that's just the beginning of the story. So Megan Rapino wasn't the first openly gay football player. That goes to Lily Parr in the 1920s, who played for England.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:19 to 00:20:42
Fast forward to the 2023 Women's World Cup, where we saw a significant increase in LGBTQIA plus representation. In this tournament, at least 96 athletes were openly LGBTQIA plus, compared to just 40 in the 2019 World Cup. That's nearly one in every eight players. And that's doubled considering don't they say one in every four people are gay? Yeah, something like that.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:42 to 00:20:52
I don't know. I really don't know. But considering that also, if we're looking at 96 players, you said yeah, 96. How many players are there in total? I have no idea.

Katie (Host) | 00:20:52 to 00:21:00
But I've got the stats of the percentage, so we can work it out. Fabulous. Thank you. Because that's what I was going to have a look at, is what percentage of the players actually identified. I talk about a little bit later.

Katie (Host) | 00:21:00 to 00:21:16
I can get to that. So these numbers are truly astonishing for an international competition at the highest level of the sport. What's even more remarkable is that at least three head coaches were publicly out. PIA Sundarge from Brazil, bev Priestman from Canada, and Hajris from Norway. Yay.

Katie (Host) | 00:21:16 to 00:21:28
So, what do you reckon? Does this officially make football or soccer, depending on whereabouts you are in the world, the most LGBTQIA plus inclusive sport in the world? What do you reckon? No, I'd say rugby probably is. Oh, yeah, yeah, that'd be interesting.

Katie (Host) | 00:21:28 to 00:21:42
Yeah, we should look into the stats of that. It's interesting because, like I said previously, there's always a lot of queerness in. Sports, I think, specifically female sports. Yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely. It's true.

Archie (Host) | 00:21:42 to 00:22:05
I think it's because people it comes under that whole thing of, like, women used to always just do girly things and girly things weren't sport. So anybody who didn't feel comfortable just doing girly things used to do sport. Which means that people who didn't feel comfortable just being girly sometimes does incorporate people who are gender diverse or sexually diverse. So. Yeah, I'm not surprised.

Archie (Host) | 00:22:05 to 00:22:32
But I think it'd be interesting to look at next when we do an episode on sports. Well, I want to go into that because I do have a friend who I want to come on. And we've talked about doing a topic about LGBT representation in sport and how they found it later in life. Yeah, because I think that would be cool to look at all the different sports and be like, what percentage? Because I can't imagine that the percentage of queerness in, say, soccer or rugby would be the same amount of queerness you'd see in netball, which is characterised as a stereotypically more feminine sport.

Archie (Host) | 00:22:32 to 00:22:54
That's true. So it'd be interesting, and it'd be interesting to see if they actually have the statistics as well, if they've actually looked into it pure of statistics. So the queerest sporting event, the 2023 Women's World Cup, could very well be the most openly queer sporting event in history. To put it into perspective, the recent Men's World Cup in Qatar saw no openly gay players. You can't.

Archie (Host) | 00:22:54 to 00:23:19
It's illegal in Qatar. You'd probably be yeah. But in women's football, openly queer players have become an integral part of the game. So TikTok influencer Jackie J, known as JCube Hacks, has described the 2023 Women's World Cup as a source of good queer joy. Through her videos, she shared memorable moments, including sideline romances and emotional proposals, like the heartwarming one by Australia's Emily Van Egbon after a four nil win against Canada.

Archie (Host) | 00:23:20 to 00:23:23
There was a proposal? Yeah. You didn't see it? No. You're missing out.

Katie (Host) | 00:23:23 to 00:23:34
I'll show you. I'll show you. Honey, that's so beautiful. So, if you had to get the gayest team, what do you think? Is the gayest team or the let's put it, what do we think?

Archie (Host) | 00:23:34 to 00:23:48
Australia. Yeah. I didn't even get to finish the question, but yes, Australia. So Australia leads the way in the LGBTQ plus representation, with at least ten openly out athletes representing over 40% of their team. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:23:48 to 00:24:00
Following closely are Brazil, Ireland and if you had to say one more, who would you say? Canada. No, I'm trying to remember. They beat Australia for third. Oh, I've just had a mental blank.

Katie (Host) | 00:24:00 to 00:24:04
Because I remember Sweden. Sweden. Oh, Sweden. Yeah. Oh, yes.

Archie (Host) | 00:24:04 to 00:24:16
Because there was a lot of drama in between that as well. Are you going to talk about no. Oh, I'm like, am I a drama mongerer? No, I'm not a drama monger. No, you're not.

Katie (Host) | 00:24:16 to 00:24:33
So, before we move on, here's a question for you. What impact do you think the increased LGBTQIA plus representation in the 2023 Women's World Cup has on the broader acceptance of queer individuals in sport and society? Oh, I think I'm going to not answer the question first, just so you know.

Katie (Host) | 00:24:36 to 00:25:04
Go ahead. First of all, I think the impact it has just generally on society has such a positive impact for women in sport, because we had and I'm not sure if you're going to touch on this later, but we had more representation, we had more people attending the games than a lot of them. Like a lot of the socceroos, we had better outcomes, we have more goals. I think Sam Kerr has she's got more? She has, actually, she's the leading Australian goal scorer absolutely ever.

Archie (Host) | 00:25:04 to 00:25:09
I think she was 54. And Sam and whoever cahill. Tim Cahill. Tim Cahill. Thank you.

Archie (Host) | 00:25:09 to 00:25:28
I've forgotten him. Who cares? He's only 50, so, like, fuck him. But that's the thing. I think it's so brilliant for women that we have that representation, and seeing as sport has been misogynistic for a long time and, yes, granted, I am stereotyping, but it is true, you can look at the statistics on that one anyway about that.

Archie (Host) | 00:25:29 to 00:25:43
But it's so important for women, let alone queer women, just to have that representation there, I've just thought is bloody brilliant for queer people in general. I think it's absolutely it's just positive. It's like majorly positive. It's just nice to see yourself represented. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:25:43 to 00:26:11
And see a really good positive representation. Because, I mean, a lot of the representation that people have of queer people if they don't have friends is TV, and a lot of TV is from the States. So stereotyped and is stereotyped and it may not actually follow with what you see in Australia or follow with what our ideals are. So it's nice just seeing great female sportsmen who are unproblematic. You said beat female sportsmen.

Archie (Host) | 00:26:11 to 00:26:22
Is it not still sportswoman? Sportswomen like an actress, actor, like sports person? Sports person. Oh, there you go. I learned something new, guys, always about learning.

Archie (Host) | 00:26:22 to 00:26:39
What have you learned this episode so far? What's truly incredible is how this increased representation has had a ripple effect. Fans around the world have been sharing their reactions and stories online, specifically TikTok, which you don't see because you're addicted, creating a sense of community and support. In a 2017 essay for. Outsports.

Katie (Host) | 00:26:39 to 00:27:03
Footballer Hannah Wilkinson highlighted the importance of using one's platform as a pro athlete to advocate for inclusivity. Many LGBTQIA plus athletes are now following suit, marking a significant change from the past, when athletes often hid their sexual identities due to fear of discrimination. In fact, about 13% of players in the 2023 Women's World Cup identify as LGBTQIA plus. That's awesome. Yeah.

Archie (Host) | 00:27:03 to 00:27:32
And it shows that there has been a big change. And it doesn't necessarily mean that there's been a big change in our world, because if you look at what kind of things that we were looking at back in our previous World Cups to what we're looking at now, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's easier. It just means that there are more people who have the strength that can actually go forward and that safe spaces have been created to be like, no, we have to have representation. This is so important for us to do. I think it's bloody brilliant.

Katie (Host) | 00:27:33 to 00:28:04
How do you think the visibility and openness of these athletes, specifically in women's sport, can impact young athletes who might be struggling with their own identities? Well, it's like that whole idol complex. If your idol can do it, then maybe you can do it as well. It gives you something to look forward to or not look forward to, but something to look to. And being like, if somebody with that higher profile that has those pressures, who is that brilliant can be queer, then maybe being queer is not a bad thing.

Archie (Host) | 00:28:04 to 00:28:27
Because still, I think that there's a baseline of homophobia that people do have. So I think that that is such a positive thing for people to see in a role model and being like, this is who I am, and they can follow suit as well. It's very important. It's not just about displays of queer affection. Canadian midfielder Quinn made history by becoming the first transgender or non binary person to play in either a men's or women's World Cup.

Archie (Host) | 00:28:27 to 00:28:39
That's so cool. Yeah, I've got a question about that. Yes. So in the FIFA Women's World Cup, how many trans people were playing? They are the only one.

Archie (Host) | 00:28:39 to 00:28:54
They're the only one. Yeah. And if somebody so they're trans, but they're non binary, nonbinary trans, nonbinary so no hormones or anything like that, from what I've gathered. I was trying to do a bit of research, but there's not too much on it. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:28:54 to 00:29:24
Why is women's sports more inclusive? This trend extends beyond football, with lesbian and bisexual athletes being visible in various sports, including cricket, tennis, boxing, basketball, hockey and more challenging stereotypes, and contributing to a more inclusive sporting landscape. It's fascinating to note that many openly lesbian athletes emerged over a century ago, like Lily Parr that I mentioned previously, who played for the Dick KERS Ladies Football Club in England before women were banned from FA owned grounds in 1921. Wow. Yeah.

Katie (Host) | 00:29:24 to 00:29:42
So women were banned. They were not allowed to play on any FA grounds. Banned from everything, right. One notable trend is the emergence of LGBTQ plus sports organisations and initiatives that support and advocate for queer athletes. These platforms play a crucial role in fostering visibility and providing resources for LGBTQIA plus individuals in sport.

Katie (Host) | 00:29:42 to 00:30:01
I know that there are a few here in Perth as well, so ones that I can think of is like Spectre basketball. And then the Scorpions, I think, is a volleyball team and I think there's a rugby team as well. So there are definitely some queer sports here in Perth. And I think there's also Pride Football FC and that kind of thing. So there are definitely ones here in Perth, if you'd like to cheque them out.

Katie (Host) | 00:30:01 to 00:30:33
And I do know there's several instagrams and we do follow some and I think you might have seen every now and then I do share some to our stories of the different sporting queer alliances. I think there's also yeah, queer sporting alliance as well. While women's sports have made great strides in LGBTQIA plus inclusivity, the same can't be said for men's sport, which we've touched on previously. Surveys have shown that male athletes often face more challenges in coming out due to fear of backlash, including losing sponsorship deals and encountering homophobic slurs. Unfortunately, homophobic chanting from fans in the British premier leagues remains a concern even today.

Katie (Host) | 00:30:33 to 00:31:16
We must also acknowledge the unique landscape in Australian Rules football, where there has been a lack of openly gay AFL players, highlighting the ongoing challenges in fostering LGBTQIA plus acceptance across various sports. I even saw there's like a mini documentary about someone who came out and said they couldn't play what they couldn't play AFL, and even just in their small community because they felt they didn't belong. And then fear of being outed and that kind of stuff, and they found it later on when they're older and that kind of thing. Yeah, it's really toxic. The first time I attended any of these, whether it be a football match or when I started attending soccer matches is I was amazed by the toxic masculinity, that feeling that is overarching when it comes to heckling or booing or all that kind of stuff.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:16 to 00:31:52
It's not anything to do with who's playing. It's just like this crowd mentality that's actually really destructive towards no matter what player it goes against. All sportsmanship that we have in Australia because we do like it's. That whole thing is when you're a kid and you start playing sports, you get told at the end of the games, you go and shake the other team's hand and use hip hip parade for the other team or whatever it is. And it's that whole sportsman element to it that I feel like when you get these kind of you go to these kind of games, it's just this overarching, I am caveman, you are shit.

Archie (Host) | 00:31:52 to 00:32:07
Then they end up yelling all these horrible obscenities at their players, which they're just trying to do the best that they can. Sport. Yeah, it's like, honestly, the things that get called out is absolutely horrible. I'm like, why? You can't do any better.

Archie (Host) | 00:32:07 to 00:32:16
Like 100% you can't. I'd love to see you get on the field and try to do exactly what they just did, absolutely. No matter what. And people get really riled up again. And I get it, I get it.

Archie (Host) | 00:32:17 to 00:32:26
It's a great thing to watch, it's really awesome. But that negativity. Like, fucking hell. It's absolutely insane. Yeah, that's my one swear word.

Katie (Host) | 00:32:26 to 00:32:31
You said one before. No, I didn't. I said bloody no. You said. No, I didn't.

Katie (Host) | 00:32:31 to 00:32:39
Yes, you did. About Tim Cahill. You listened back and you said that. I've got an. We got no, we got an explicit rating thanks to this one.

Katie (Host) | 00:32:40 to 00:33:31
So, considering the differences in LGBTQIA plus representation between women's and men's sport, what steps do you think sports organisations and society can take to promote inclusivity and acceptance in all sports, regardless of gender or sexuality or identity? I think, number one, they've got to create a safe space for their players. So it means that if there are any derogatory comments, discriminatory comments that are made by media, by journalists or in questioning, that needs to addressed and that needs to be shut down and it needs to be shut down by people who are high up and being like, that is not acceptable and we do not promote that. I think there needs to be an openness in allowing queer representation. I think that sponsors need to be sponsoring queer people and there has to be celebration of that kind of stuff to just show that it's great, it doesn't matter.

Archie (Host) | 00:33:31 to 00:34:03
Like, you can be whoever you need to be because it's about the soccer and you can just thrive as the person that you are, devoid of anything else. Whereas people tend to throw it back in the face and be like, I don't care what gender you are or I don't care what but in saying that you're not supporting, you're not doing a good thing. All in all, it needs to actually be actively supported. We need to make sure that there is laws not laws, but policies. There should be policies about discrimination and those should be upheld.

Katie (Host) | 00:34:03 to 00:34:17
Well, there is this discrimination act and all that. People that you're not supposed to but. Yeah, where has that gotten us so far? It needs to be upheld. You can have acts in place, but you need to have people in power upholding these acts or they mean nothing because people see it from a higher level.

Archie (Host) | 00:34:17 to 00:34:38
If it's not governed from a higher level, there is no way that it's going to get governed from a lower level because you have to work from the top to the bottom. There's no point in everyone rallying at the bottom when you still have so much discrimination above. That's true. It's very difficult. But what's really cool is at the moment, and thanks to the Women's World Cup, arguably our biggest sports person at the moment is Sam Kerr.

Katie (Host) | 00:34:38 to 00:34:45
And they are a person of colour and they are queer. Yeah. Which is amazing. It's great to see that representation. It is really good, isn't it?

Katie (Host) | 00:34:45 to 00:35:08
So, before we sign off, let's reflect on the power of representation. It's not just about LGBTQIA plus individuals seeing themselves on the field. It's about everyone recognising that diversity makes sports richer, more exciting and more meaningful. If you have any thoughts or stories to share about queer representation in sport or any other topic, please reach out to us on our social media channels or through email. We'd love to hear from you and continue this important conversation.

Archie (Host) | 00:35:08 to 00:35:17
If you want to find us on our Instagram I keep on forgetting to say this. We're at? Let's be perfectly queer. Pod podcast on Instagram. Thank you very much.

Archie (Host) | 00:35:17 to 00:35:24
And if you want to send us an email, it's let's Be Perfectlyqueepod@gmail.com. That's correct. Reach out. Yeah. Reach out to us.

Katie (Host) | 00:35:24 to 00:35:39
We'd love to hear from you. Yeah. With these insights, we close. Today's episode emphasising the importance of not only celebrating progress, but also acknowledging the ongoing battles for LGBTQIA plus acceptance in the world of sports, specifically in men's sports. Thank you for joining us on this discussion.

Katie (Host) | 00:35:39 to 00:35:58
We encourage you to continue supporting queer athletes and embracing diversity in sports and beyond. Feel free to share your thoughts and stories with us here in Australia. Don't forget, the Women's A League season has started, or is just starting soon, so get on board of that. Thank you for listening to our podcast. And this episode about queer representation in the Women's World Cup 2023.

Archie (Host) | 00:35:58 to 00:36:07
And look out for our future episode about being queer in just sport, as well as being trans in sport. We've got that. As an upcoming episode. We do. So watch this space.

Katie (Host) | 00:36:07 to 00:36:19
Yeah. So thank you for listening all the way through to the end. Until next time, I hope that we have been perfectly queer. It I felt like screaming, Go. Hopefully I'm not going to.

Archie (Host) | 00:36:29 to 00:36:32
Let'S be perfectly clear. Close.